Let’s say Bilbo and Gandalf showed the Ring to Elrond who immediately recognized it.
It may have been easier. The time between Bilbo finding the ring and the War of the Ring was about 80 years. That was 80 years where Sauron had a lot of prep time. The Ringwraiths were probably without trained Fell beasts yet. Perhaps they could have had the Eagles help as so many have so helpfully suggested over the years.
On the other hand, part of the final success was Sauron being very distracted from Mordor itself and he was not even close to ready to attack Gondor 80 years earlier and would not have had a mad Denethor yet nor an ally in Saruman to distract and weaken Rohan. His attention and guard on Mordor would have been much tighter. There was no adult Heir of Elendil at the time as Arathorn II was dead and Aragorn only 10 in 2941 when Bilbo found the Ring. Even with Eagles, Sauron who well knows who the Eagles work for would be on guard against them and in any scenario they may not have been allowed to aid so directly.
jsc1953: Yes, exactly. The Dragons probably had some bad indigestion that night though.
This has always struck me as the case. The Ring would use whatever lever was most effective for gaining a foothold* on its wearer. Had it been sentient, it must have been frustrated at gaining foothold on Smeagol, only to realize it had doomed itself to hundreds of years of inactivity due to his becoming completely antisocial.
Also, I feel compelled to point out that I have an actual** One Ring. I got it with my Collector’s Edition of Lord of the Ring Online: Mines of Moria. It will barely fit past the first knuckle of my pinky, but its coolness is such that that’s enough.
RR
*Strange ring: it has claws and feet.
**It is defective, though; it does not make me invisible. I’m betting that was on purpose for liability issues.
Maybe easier, yes, as for a few years after Bilbo’s finding the Ring there was only a minimal Sauron presence in Mordor**.
Maybe harder, though, in that had Gandalf figured out the Ring’s true nature he would quite likely have mentioned it straightway to Saruman, which would have been not-so-hotso.
RR
Was not the Sauron then wearing his Necromancer hat and making Greenwood the Great all Mirky then?
But you hit on my problem with an early disposal of the ring; it doesn’t do anything to bring back the kingship of Gondor. I’m also uncertain what Saruman does in this circumstance. He hasn’t come close to building his full army in such a scenario, but I think he was already corrupt; eliminating Sauron as a rival/potential ally may result in his going bad in a different way much earlier.
What I really am interested in, though, is whether anyone things the elder Underhill was up to being Ringbearer/Destroyer. I think so, but I’m sure others have cogent contrary arguments.
Also, I don’t think the Eagles were every going to just carry anybody into Mordor. 'Tweren’t their job. I suspect they rescued Thorin & Co. from the bonfire basically just to be jerks to the Goblins, and intervened in the Battle of Five Armies because they happened to be on their way somewhere else and saw a chance for additional aquiline jerkery.
I considered that, but I don’t think Gandalf would have. For some reason he did not even ask Elrond to look at it. Gandalf knew Elrond was a Ring Bearer and had seen the One Ring in person. I doesn’t appear Gandalf asked many questions of Saruman in the area.
Skald the Rhymer, by the time Gandalf and Bilbo returned to Rivendell, Sauron was already rebuilding his old digs in Mordor having been freshly ‘chased’* out of Dol Guldor
I think Bilbo may well have been able to carry the Ring on the mission, but it would have had to have been a different mission. One where the White Council probably would have had to escort him and Saruman would have tried to betray them and seize the Ring.
He was prepared to leave when the White Council finally moved on him.
Remember, the Nazgul held Minas Ithil since the year 2000 of the third age, so had free rein to wander around the interior of Mordor, since they’d previously driven out Gondor’s watchmen from the various watchtowers by TA 1945. That meant that anyone wandering in Mordor was likely to run into trouble long before Frodo was even born.
I believe he was aware that Gandalf had been sneaking around and had discovered his true identity, so yes, he was already preparing to go to ground in Mordor when the White Council’s assault came.
The assault wasn’t complete, however, and the Nazgul were back in Dol Guldur in a few years, using it as a base to pin Galadriel down in Lothlorien.
That’s never seemed unreasonable to me. On the one hand ole Olorin had a lot on his plate; on the other hand, he had been assured by Saruman, whom he then respected, trusted, & admired, that the One Ring was hopelessly lost, and (by implication) that its absence made no particular difference to Sauron’s puissance. Also, as the One Ring looked like an ordinary gold band, it wasn’t very noteworthy, I deem. I doubt Elrond knew what happened to it when hot anyway. Alternatively, if he had seen the ring markings, he had only seen it while the ring was hot and did not know that the markings in the Black Speech disappeared after it cooled.
I came back to the thread to say just that. Embarrassingly, it had to be pointed out to me by Liz, who’s only gotten into the Perfesser’s work in the last 3 months. I blame my humiliation on the folk of Bree.
Are you saying that Gandalf, Elrond, Cirdan, Saruman, and Galadriel would PERSONALLY have gone with him? Why?
Not Círdan*, but fresh off forcing Sauron out of Dol Guldor I could well see the others along Radagast and many in the Household of Elrond including Glorfindel and Erestor and many from Lothlórien led by Celeborn. I’m sure they would have picked up some more help where possible among either the Rangers of the North or Gondor.
Mine works fine. I can put it on, walk into a room full of my friends, and it can be as much as ten minutes before anyone finally notices me and says “hi”. (I probably did something that exposed me to the sighted. I’m working on figuring that out now.)
You blame YOUR humiliation on Butterbear and his neighbors, or MY humiliation? If the latter, are you ADMITTING that you’ve all been conspiring against me?
I don’t know, he apparently very successfully led the archers of Lothlórien in several if not many battles and was a member of the White Council. I think you are underestimating him as he appears unimportant next to his wife who was among the strongest of the Children of Ilúvatar.
I suppose that makes sense. I mean, Steve Trevor* is, by all accounts, a reasonably good soldier, but everyone thinks he’s a complete putz because he’s always following around Wonder Woman.
*Yeah, I know Trevor married Etta Candy post-Crisis. But I don’t know what Nemesis’ real name is and am too lazy to check. Besides, everybody knows Wondy’s half in love with Superman, half with Aquaman, and half with Mary Marvel.
Yes, exactly. The Dragons probably had some bad indigestion that night though.