Well there are three contenders; Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis. Instinct would say Tyson. The record shows that Lewis beat both. Holyfield beat Tyson.
Lewis would be my vote, since he defeated both, but in his career he suffred two KO at the hands of vastly inferior boxers, though to be fair, he came back and avenged both losses.
Holyfield won the most titles; 4.
And how would either Lewis or Holyfield have fared against the Tyson of the eighties, as opposed to the post 1992 rape convicton fighter.
Define “great”. I go for Holyfield, and not just for his boxing proficiency. Still I’d rather watch him box than either of the others. If you go for the “chessmatch” definition of boxing, he’s the clear winner. If “Great” includes his record as a human being, then he also wins.
If you are willing to settle for “most successful at brutalizing opponent” then I guess you have to say Tyson. But that isn’t “greatness” IMHO.
I don’t see a catgeory or definition in which Lewis wins this title. Well, I guess you are saying that by the statistical definition he does. Tough one. When I think of Lewis, “great” does not come to mind.
Lewis. Had more tools than any fighter who’s ever lived. He had the bad luck to be fighting when the sport was waning, and his reign was tainted by some bizarre fights, including his early-stoppage loss to Oliver McCall and McCall’s nervous breakdown in their rematch. Still and all, Lewis had fine boxing skills and amazing physical gifts. I don’t see him losing to any other fighter in history in a three-bout series.
Tyson at his best was unbeatable. Don’t overlook the fact that was the youngest champion ever, just a few months after turning 20, and went on to unify a splintered title to become the first truly undisputed champion of the WBA/WBC/IBF era. The problem is that the “truly great” period of his career is so damn short; lasted what, maybe four years, before he got stupid and reckless and lazy?
Measuring the total career, I’d have to go with Lewis, simply because I detested Holyfield’s tendency to use his head as a weapon, and because Holyfield very nearly got his block knocked off by Bert Cooper.
In the middle of that mix are some horrible decisions due to evil promoters and bought off judges. I saw Hollyfield get his butt whipped but he got the decisions because he had money fights coming up. Tyson was the best for a short time. Maybe all time best.
Agreed, and it’s not really close IMO. Tyson never beat anyone of standing and is not especially rated by the cogniscenti - he usually comes in 15-20 in lists of greatest heavy weights that get bandied around boxing websites. He had great skills but just never beat anyone - he fought in a weak era of heavyweights and made his career brutalising either tomato cans or good fighters who were way passed it (e.g. Larry Holmes).
Holyfield is not in the equation either, but for a different reason - he’s a natural cruiserweight. Great, great warrior that has everyone’s respect - defo one of the greatest cruisers all time, but just not a heavyweight. Still, put a righteous, down- home Georgia ass-kicking on Tyson first time round. For such a Christian man, Holy was one of the dirtiest bastards who ever laced the gloves up.
That leaves Lewis. As much as Tyson tends to get under-rated by real boxing fans, Lewis is a bit over-rated IMO. Both his losses were silly, at the hands of vastly inferior pugilists, but they were still losses. Also, Lewis was so skilled that he was never taken into deep waters, not really. Think Ali v Frazier, where both men saw the face of their fathers - Lewis was never taken anywhere remotely close to this level of intensity. So it makes it hard to compare him across eras - a bit like Floyd today, he’s (rightly) praised to the skies because he’s never even broken sweat, but you do wonder what would happen if someone really started asking questions in the ring. The legends of boxing have all been taken to bad, bad places and emerged victorious. Lewis never really had to do that.
Still, you just cannot ignore the tools Lewis was working with - just a sublimely skilled, athletic heavyweight. On this basis, I agree with stuthehistoryguy that Lewis’ skillset was extraordinary and you would have to favour him over anybody in history in a best of three.
I just don’t see how any boxer is going to beat Tyson at his best. You are not going to outpoint him and his elusive head movement and constant aggression is going to make it far more likely he knocks you out, than the other way round.
Had Tyson stayed away from Don King, and not gotten lazy, the Buster Douglas upset would not have happened, and Tyson may have gone on to cement his place as the all time best Heavyweight. Sadly, that isn’t what happened, and after he was released from prison, he wasn’t the same fighter. He failed gut check after gut check, took an intentional DQ against Holyfield, and otherwise destroyed his legacy.
Holyfield was a great boxer, but he was really a blown up cruiserweight that never had a real heavyweight punch.
I guess that leaves Lewis…but Ali in his prime woulda beat him, I think.
One can never say for sure, of course, but Ali never fought anybody near that big except for Chuck Wepner–who gave him way more trouble than a fighter of such limited skills should have.
You’re way off the mark, my friend. You think Iron Mike running up to Muhammad Ali and throwing an overhand right would have got him discouraged? It is to laugh. Ali went seven rounds with a prime George Foreman, leaned over and whispered in his ear ‘Is that all you’ve got George? I’m disappointed.’ Then knocked him out in the eighth. Mike was great, but the one thing we do know about him is that he aint got no heart. Even Evander showed that.
Who did Mike Tyson beat that makes you rate him so highly? Name names. ‘Elusive head movement and constant aggression’ is easy if you’re fighting bums two levels below you.
Tyson could only fight whoever was put in front of him. To claim all he had was aggression and an overhand right, is to miss the mark by an even wider margin. Tyson was a fanatical student of boxing and was well aware of ringcraft. That he seldom, if ever, needed to use it, was a testament to his work rate and his overwhelming aggression.
Who’s claiming that? Not me - Mike’s skills speak for themselves, he was a great fighter. To claim, though, that he was unbeatable at his best, based on his resume of fighting has-beens, the never were and the never will be, is just ridiculous. You know that yourself.
Unfortunately for Mike’s legacy, we don’t need to speculate on what would have happened if he’d fought a legend from the past - an Ali, or a Louis. When Mike finally met a fighter on his level, in Holyfield, he bottled it. Completely choked. And then did it again with Lewis. How far do you think a fighter gets against someone like Ali if he doesn’t have the heart for it? It wouldn’t even be worth their while turning up.
It’s more interesting to talk about how Lewis stacks up all time. Like Tyson, he fought in a weak era for heavyweights. (Ironically, we all thought it was a nadir at the time, we didn’t realise how much worse it could get). He beat everyone put in front of him, but doesn’t really have the marquee match-ups that previous generations of fighter had. At his best, though, and after a slow start to his career, he became imperious in the ring - no one could get near him. His legacy is weakened by his motivation problems - he lost to a couple of club fighters, but avenged the defeats with ease.
As mentioned above, he retired a previously unbeaten Mike Spinks, and finished off Larry Holmes in 4 rounds, where it had took Spinks 15 in both his fights with Holmes.
Larry Holmes being the guy who had made 20 heavyweight title defences and had never been ko’d in 75 fights! Okay, you can say he was at the tail-end of his career, but it took a Tyson to show him that.
I’ll go for Tyson for his pre-prison career. Let’s pretend he got shanked and never came out. He is the only heavyweight since Ali, Frazier, Foreman that I could be bothered going out to watch. His early fights were awesome if only for the opportunity to see professional boxers scared witless.
It is to laugh. Ali went seven rounds with a prime George Foreman, leaned over and whispered in his ear ‘Is that all you’ve got George? I’m disappointed.’ Then knocked him out in the eighth. Mike was great, but the one thing we do know about him is that he aint got no heart. Even Evander showed that.