Well, in a cosmic sense, 3 1/2 months is an eyeblink…
But good OP, Gaspode. Frankly, if the results of the election really DOES encourage Al Qaida… well, we’ll start to notice. I DO think that this increases the likelihood that somebody - not necessarily just AQ - might try some shit nearabouts the US election this Novemember… but that’s a different subject.
Ironic, I think because most of the people using the the word “Coward” to try to describe Spaniards have probably never had neither war nor terror attacks in their city. Its easy for you to sit in North Carolina and vote to send poor kids looking for a way to pay though college into that Damn Fool War, and consider yourself brave for having supported it. If you haven’t realized Europeans are fucking sick having everything blown up and people getting killed. Spaniards in particular are sick of it because they have had a particularly bad history. First they had a Civil War in the 30’s. Just imagine what a civil war is like. Imagine if in America the Democrats and Republicans went to arms against each other. How many democrats do you know and maybe even love? Can you even BEGIN to imagine how hard that is. Then we have the whole Franco regime. While he was popular in some circles he was still oppressive. They got democracy when he died, and almost lost it again in a coup. Then there have been around 500 that have been killed by ETA spread all across Spain. Even if they did decide to pull out of Iraq because they didn’t want to fight anymore I still don’t call them cowards. When you have had a century of turmoil, then its not so selfish to think about your own interests as a nation rather than participation in Iraq that has little to do with the war against terror. Yeah its kind of easy as an American. The last time we had a serious war on our country was in our civil war. You know how much trouble we still have with that? Its only worse in Spain because those people are still alive. We have the ability to be “brave” because we don’t really have to see death and destruction except on television (except for 9/11 of course).
Let’s see… there’s a bombing (several,) the next day there’s an election, the next day the new prez calls to move out of Iraq. Not exactly BRAVE, if you ask me. Sounds like cut-and-run at the first hint of pain to me…
**if6was9, ** did you even read any of the other thread? I will reiterate, it’s very possible that people might be against terrorism while also being against the war on Iraq, since the war on Iraq has nothing to do with fighting terrorism and in fact will cause more of it. Fuckwad.
First sign of pain? You obviously don’t know the shit Spain has been through. Try an entire century. Spaniards have had only about 25 years of serious stability. We’ve had that in America since the civil war. It is cutting and running, but why, for FUCKS sake should they stay? Just to be obstinate? And don’t be so fucking high and mighty. Bush is trying to get the troops out ASAP as well. Don’t you fucking presume for a minute if Bush could stick the burden on the UN and NATO that he wouldn’t.
Not only is fighting a war in Iraq a piss poor way of fighting terrorism, but Spain also had a very small role.
Heh, wish I was kidding, but given the behavior of some of the folks around here (including a few members of the Gang Of Seventeen), I don’t find this all that hard to imagine.
I think this whole story has been distorted in America to play into the hands of American partisans. From what I understand, the major effect that swung the elections was not people changing their minds at all in light of terrorism. What happened was that the attacks motivated a lot of people (mostly young people) to go out and vote, and these younger people, who had been mostly apathetic about voting, were ALREADY overwhelmingly against the Iraq war.
So, basically, it’s a cheap lie to say that Spain somehow cowed out. The election turned on a demographic change in who voted in response to the bombing, not any massive swing in public opinion.
But hey, if it serves the interests of partisans on both the right and left in America, anything goes!
The same planet were there was no terrorism anywhere in the world prior to September 11, 2001.
But…[They’re shooting at ME!]
My god, The Gaspode! You just rock!
Merkwurdigliebe, I’m from New York. I watched the towers burn from my rooftop. I breathed the stench of cement and corpses for a week. Two of my grandfather’s sons barely made it to his funeral because they couldn’t fly here (he died on 9/12). I lost my job because of 9/11 when business slowed. Hundreds of thousands of people, from Chinatown seamstresses to deli owners to stockbrokers, lost their jobs and thousands lost their homes on that day. My little working-class neighborhood in the Bronx alone lost twelve people. My church lost two choristers, my brother lost the guy he ate lunch with in HS every day for four years.
The same little brother is in Spain right now, an Air Force reservist. He’s an electrician who services C-5 Galaxies, the giant cargo planes that are trying to bring humanitarian supplies to Iraq. He was living in a nice hotel but now, tonight in fact, they’re moving all the Americans on base, because now they’re afraid they’ll not only be attacked by Al Qaeda but by Spanish hotheads in the streets.
So I am affected. How dare you assume otherwise.
And if you want to see how its playing in mainstream newspapers here, go to nypost.com, nydailynews.com, and nytimes.com. That’s what Americans are seeing. It may be more nuanced than you think.
An extremely apposite thread, Gaspode.
One heartening thing about those other threads is that there are so many Dopers unwilling to descend to moronic generalizations about “cowardice” and “giving in to terrorism.”
The fact that your list contains as many as 17 morons is a concern; the fact that it contains only 17 is cause for optimism.
Exactly! But be careful, gatopescado, or you’ll be pitted too. We can’t have *opinions * on this board, you know. (And some people confuse liberals with communists.) Ideas are a dangerous thing! They must be quashed immediately whenever they fail to follow the party line. 
Screw you. Screw you, Michael Moore.
I resent you painting me with the same brush as others who have used language I haven’t used. But then again, that’s pretty typical of people of your ilk, isn’t it?
The Gaspode, tears welled up in my eyes as I read your OP. What a wonderful country Spain is. But if your giving history lessons, lets not forget the pillaging and rape that many countries and peoples faced at the hands of the Spaniards over the past 500 years. And don’t forget the Inquisition.
Now then, my endorsement of the OP in Maud’Dib’s thread was basically an expression of my disappointment with the election result and my perception as to the reason the electorate apparently changed there minds. I would never have chosen the words Maud’Dib did nor did I at the time consider Maud’Dib was doing anything but exuberantly ranting.
Someone in that thread pointed out a reason why a portion of the Spanish electorate changed their vote, which I considered reasonable and with merit. I changed my mind.
I do not apologize for my earlier remarks. Why the fuck do I or the other 16 have to be centred out for expressing an unpopular view? What the fuck is your point. What is the point of publishing our profiles? Your actions here remind me of what you Europeans did to female nazi collaborators following the war. Shame on you.
“People of your ilk?” ** Starving Artist, ** do you even realize how stupid this sounds? You’ve just made a blatant generalization about a group of people in the act of criticizing someone else for making unfair generalizations. But you’re a fucking idiot anyway, so this doesn’t surprise me coming from you.
Thank you for enlightening us and setting the proper example with your obviously superior existence.
What a crock of smug, sanctimonious crap!
Well, we tried invading random countries after 9/11. Doesn’t seem to have worked, now, has it?
You fucking idiot! There are no people of his “ilk?” There are no people who hold similar beliefs? It means the people who are *like * him, not the ones who simply agree with him. What a fucking bozo.
I am so tired of having to defend myself from deliberate and/or stupid misrepresentations of what I’ve said by the people on this board who are supposed to be more intelligent than the average bear. Emotions rule the day here, as do political orientation. One thing I’m finding out is that when it comes to the Pit, logic has very little to do with anything. It’s really quite disappointing, and not at all what I would have expected of this site.
Ho-kay. I write something heartfelt that shows why I might feel a certain way about civilians faced with mindless terrorism, and people want me DEAD? Three years on the SDMB and that’s never happened, and here in one day I get threatened by World Eater and Aldebaran. But obviously I’m over-reacting, since not a single mod has made a peep about either incident.
This thread has become the equivalent of banging my own head against the wall. I think you misunderstood me, Gaspode, and I can understand your sorrow and how emotional and angry you feel, but there’s really no need to lash out in a thread like this. I hope you find peace soon. Me, I’m bailing out of the side of this listing ship now.
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