Group pitting of 17 Dopers who think Spaniards are cowards

The BBQ Pit
61

I’m right behind you. It’s pointless to continue. These people don’t want to weigh pros and cons, they only want to look for excuses to pat themselves on the back and congratulate each other on what wonderful, evolved people they are, even if they have to miscontrue, mislead and/or invent things to try to discredit those with which they disagree. I have never read such nonsensical conclusions and points of view in my life. You can’t argue with people who can’t understand what you’re saying.

Sheesh! :rolleyes:

62

Thank you, Gaspode.

Quite frankly, I’ve been trying real hard for sometime now to keep my perception of Americans on an even keel. And while I realize that almost all generalizations are wrong, doing so, has been a real trying experience over the past few days. Because it seems that just about everywhere I turn, whether mainstream media or bulletin boards, I find ideological clones of the people you listed in your OP. People spouting the vilest nonsense about other people and circumstances they know next to nothing about – and it shows.

I confess that after reading and responding in anger to one of your linked GD threads, I avoided opening the even more incendiary one here in The Pit. Because its come to the point that it’s simply not worth it. And rather than getting angrier at more Neanderthals than I already am, I chose to remember all of the kind folk, Americans and others, who’ve not only offered words of support but have also understood the great courage and dignity it took for our nation as a whole to act the way it did in the rather surreal and emotional days that followed – up to and including the magnificent display of democracy on Sunday.

As for the results of the election itself, I’ve already said my piece in the referenced GD thread, but I’ll go ahead and add the following here:

I am damn proud that we as a nation finally stood up to the campaign of lies and deceit that led us down this slippery slope which tragically, albeit inevitably, culminated in the murderous attack. From now on, and how it should always be, we have a say in our destiny and, more importantly, we choose our battles. Not Aznar, not George Bush, nor any other lying SOB – we’re way too proud as a people to allow for that to happen again. Would that many of you do the same. Because don’t forget that every time an innocent life is lost due to, up untill Sunday, our deceitful invasion of Iraq, it carries our collective approval on it.

Not in my name. And certainly not anymore.

More food for thought. Would Bush have gone to war against the will of 90% of Americans? And would you hold it against it, if he had, in Nov? Add an AQ attack three days before elections and give it some further thought.

Despicable assholes. You know who you are.

And on that Pit-worthy note,

I thank you once again, kind sir.

PS-GH, born and bred Madrileño here. Overseas for many a year now but that only makes the heart grow fonder.

63

Guess what? Now you know how Spaniards feel when they hear you bleat about caving into terrorists.

64

I was too astonished at the stupidity of some of the anti-Spanish thread titles to even bother reading the threads themselves. Anyone who makes such sweeping statements is as dumb as a box of rocks. They were also terribly lacking in some basic human compassion for what Spain has gone through this week.

I appreciate the information that Gaspode and others have provided on Spain and Spainards.

Judging from what GoHeels has posted in this thread of what was said in other threads, I think her or his name should not have been on the list at all. I see no lack of compassion or willingness to examine the issues rationally.

65

Bullshit. “Ilk” is almost always used in a disparaging context. You never hear anyone say (without irony) “me and my ilk”. It’s always “you and your ilk”, and always used to refer to those with whom the speaker disagrees. And you fucking well know it.

Sure. If they disagree with you, it’s an unthinking, knee-jerk, partisan reaction. If they agree, it’s pure sweet reason. Really saves a lot of work having to actually respond to stuff, eh?

66

Yeah!..and your point is???

Thank you for helping illustrate yet again that virtually no one sees what right in front of their face on this and the other boards.

WHERE DID I INDICATE I DIDN’T MEAN “ILK” TO BE DISPARAGING?

I meant precisely that!!!

I said those of his “ilk” were those who were *like * him, as opposed to those who are merely in agreement with him on a particular issue. In this case, those who are *like * him, i.e., of his “ilk,” would be those who make no distinction among those they disagree with and who would paint me with the same brush as those who in this case referred to Spaniards as “pussies,” etc., something I never did! And yes (I’ll put this in caps, too, so you’ll be sure to understand it),

I MEANT TO INSULT THEM FOR IT!!!

(And so, yet again, I’m having to address a critisism of a point I never made. And on and on it goes.) :rolleyes:

67

Oh, calm down. Extra punctuation marks and typing in all caps does not actually add to your credibility.

As for The Gaspode and his ilk “painting you with the same brush” as those who actually used words like “pussy” and “coward”, whereas you only implied it, cry me a fucking river. What you said was close enough, and equally without basis in fact.

68

The point is, you were wrong in your ridicule of my use of the word, thereby proving yet again that people are not reading and thinking about what I’m actually saying, they are just flying off the handle and attributing things to me that I never said!

And then, to make matters worse, your response is in effect: “Well, yeah, maybe you didn’t say it, but you thought it.”

No. I didn’t think it. I meant exactly what I wrote!

And when you’re told this, your response is: "Yeah, I was wrong. You didn’t say what I said you did. You didn’t mean what I said you meant. But I’m going to take the position that regardless of what you said, or what you say your meaning is, you really meant what I said so it’s the same thing.

Good fucking grief!!!

And yeah, I’m pissed. If the assholes on these boards can’t properly interpret what I say in plain English, why should I continue to post? (Oh, hey…maybe that’s the idea. Then they don’t have to address the many substantive points I raise that they can’t honestly refute, but can’t accept, either.)

69

Oh shame on you. How can you let your own politics blind you so much that you can’t ge the simple fact through your head that:

SPAIN LET A TERRORIST ACT CHANGE THEIR ELECTIONS IN A MANNER THAT THEY BELIEVED TERRORISTS WANT

That is undeniable, and that is shameful. The history of Spain does not matter. The political persuasion of the winners and losers does not fundamentally matter. Hell, it does not even matter if it is later found that Al Quada did not have anything to do with it! All that matters is that they let themselves be guided by what they believed the murderous bullies wanted. Shame and ignominy on all those spaniards who let this happen.

70

…and he still hasn’t even provided a single shred of evidence to suggest that one solitary Spaniard voted on the basis of what he or she believed al-Qaeda wanted for him or her to do.

He’s persistent; you have to give him that.

71

I wish that was the case but it’s not. As this sample of American conservative opinions demonstrates, Spaniard-bashing is in full force. And on talk radio, the hosts practically spit whenever they say “Spain”, “Spanish”, or “Spaniard.”

That’s not really fair. The Sopranos would likely never start a war on the basis of some vague and flimsy threat.

72

Muad’Dib, I will get this simple fact through my head if you prove the following:
a)A significant number of Spanish voters changed their vote intention from the PP to the PSOE.
b)These voters were aware of who AQ wanted them to vote for at the time of the vote.
c)These voters cast their ballots for the PSOE because that’s what AQ wanted.
d)The reaction of the PP in regard to the tragedy (i.e. blaming the ETA despite mounting evidence) was of no importance to these voters.
e)The outcome of the election would have been significantly different had the bombings not occured.

I will, of course, require cites. It’s not that I am not willing to change my mind, it’s that you have totally failed to support your position.

73

Yes yes, whatever. When you said the bit about “it means people like him”, I thought you were trying to say you weren’t being deliberately insulting. So fine, you were being deliberately insulting. Mea culpa already. Doesn’t make you any less of an idiot, though. The Gaspode’s characterizaton of you was accurate, IMO.

No, my response is: You didn’t use the same words, but the spirit was identical. Saying “Spaniards have capitulated to terrorists” is essentially no different from saying “Spaniards are cowards.”

And it never once occurs to you that people did in fact read and fully understand every word you wrote, and yet still disagree. They must be stupid. Why do you continue to argue with such mental defectives?

And by the way, storming off in a huff really loses a lot of its effectiveness when you keep coming back.

74

There are only three rules in life…

(1) There’s always a victim.

(2) Don’t be one.

And the third rule? Can’t remember…

Look, I’ll talk to you calmly. I don’t care too much one way or the other about a pissfest on a messageboard, but I do care enough to offer the occasional bit of guidance.

Lord… I think this is about the 3rd or 4th time I’ve tried to say this but here goes again. The problem with all the assertions that Spain has offered solace to the enemy (which is essentially what the accusations are) is this… the Spanish electorate chose to vote for the Socialist “pull out of Iraq” platform knowing full well the world wide damnation they would incur for appearing as weak. The Socialist Party (PSOE) were hardly shy about their Foreign Policy - it was openly a “back away from GWB” policy for at least a year.

Further, the disenchantment with the incumbent party was sufficiently entrenched that the Socialists would likely have won regardless. THe problem here is that within America, a shitload of reports have maintained that the incumbent government was a lay down misere to hold office, and nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately, the bullshit got into the public domain first, and next thing ya know… the Spanish were being accused of offering a free pass to Al-Qaeda.

What the bombings did was merely bring out all the disenfranchised folks who normally would have been happy to let the Conservatives stay in power. It was Democracy at it’s finest hour. The Spanish electorate couldn’t give a shit how Americans felt about their decision… they were already aware that a shitload of righteous condemnation was gonna come down the pipe their direction if they voted the Socialists in, and yet they did anyway. Good on 'em I say. That’s a brave thing to stand up to the Americans. For once, principle is stronger than a Free Trade Agreement.

75

Politics has nothing to do with it, asshole.

That’s not a fact. That is nothing like a fact. It is the precise opposite of fact. It is a lie. Clear?

HEY! DICKHEAD! This is me, right here, denying it! Pay some fucking attention!

You are a slanderous liar, and abominable moron.

76

How the fuck did they even know which way the terrorists wanted them to vote? Idiot.

77

Here we go again. :rolleyes: When did we segue from talking about the use of the word “ilk” to the use of the word “capitulated?”

Then why don’t they bring up the substantive parts of my posts? They don’t address the specifics, they address their knee-jerk responses.

Good question, I admit. However, as soon as I address your final point below, I will (try to) be out of here.

Yeah, I know. I guess I just have a hard time letting maroons of the hook.

Now I guess I’ll set back and see who all really thinks I can’t spell “moron.” :rolleyes:

78

Although it’s apparently lost on you, most other people have figured out by now that terrorists seem to hate pretty much everyone. Get a grip.

79

Always put the seat down when you’re done? :wink:

I’d kind of like to discuss this with you further, but honestly I’ve said everything I’ve had to say on the subject, and many, many times for the most part.

Thanks for the calm post, but I think I’ll go see if I find something fun to do. Kudos to you, however. As I said last night, you were the only one who gave me pause. Too bad we can’t discuss it over a beer.

Regards. :slight_smile:

80

Dunno about you, but I made the transition in the second paragraph of my last post. Because the issue is entirely inconsequential. I thought you were dishonestly trying to deny using the word in a disparaging manner. You were not. Enough said. I know you’d like to keep harping on that, because it was in fact the only time you’ve been right in these two threads, but I’m completely over it.

They have. But since they didn’t agree with you, you dismissed it as blind partisanship.

Don’t worry, we’ve all seen the Bugs Bunny cartoons too.