Well said The Gaspode , well said.
-Tikster
Wow. There is some mighty sad circle-jerking going on here.
Muad’Dib’s OP was obnoxious to be sure, but I am saddened to see **Gaspode’s **broad brushing applauded. Several of those 17 expressed opinions that are not at all identical to Muad’Dib. I suppose ritual condemnations were required to prove political reliability?
Great. Which is why countries from all over the world responded to 9/11 by saying, “Sorry, America - we don’t really feel all that empathic towards your plight. After all, you guys DID endorse slavery for an awfully long time. Ta now.” :rolleyes:
And again, grienspace demonstrates that the level of empathy a nation (fuck, an entire continent) can expect depends on how well said nation has behaved during the past, oh, 700 years. All of this of course by his own very objective standards.
And obviously, shaving a proven collaborator bald and hanging a “Nazi Whore” sign around their neck, ca. May 1945, is an awful attrocity for which there is no possible excuse. It’s certainly worse than locking up random Muslims without due process, or without charging them with anything! :rolleyes:
Sounds like something Courtney Love might do voluntarily! Although she would probably misspell “Nazi Whore.”
Oh please, get off of it. I didn’t mention your name. I was talking about GoHeels, who obviously is from NC. I wouldn’t assume that considering that in you location field it says “the Bronx.” And why should it be such a big deal? Those Americans that have experienced terrorism first-hand are such a small minority. I really don’t have time to go through and check the location of all 17 posters but I would imagine what I said is true for at least 10 of you. I just love how people on the SDMB are just so eager to get offended. Its odd that GoHeels seems to be the most irrational out of the group. I think that going through traumatic experiences tends to make people’s thinking more tempered in the long run.
And for the Spanish people? I can’t blame them. 90 percent were against the war and they were still forced into it. And now what look what happened. They got attacked by Al Qaida because the fought in a war that 90 percent of the people were against. Should they keep fighting, and if so what for other than spite? And I have met American servicemen here, and they aren’t always innocent in issues of cultural missunderstanding, you know.
Well, well.
I can tell by the way some posters are responding, using all caps, expletives and weaseling, that someone got insulted. Good. “I never SAID they were cowards”, “Don’t presume to know what I think”, and of course the eloquent style of Maud’Dub. The thing is, an insult only hits home if you’re worthy of it - otherwise, you can just brush it off. There are of course those, like Brutus, who are totally immune, living in their little bubbles, but they are rare.
The title of the OP was “Group pitting of 17 Dopers who think Spaniards are cowards”, not “say”, “think”. The only thing I have to go on is your written word. I pressume to think that you write what you want us to know, what is your opinion. And yes, you’re being pitted for your opinion, in whatever form it takes. Do you seriously think that having an opinion gives you a home free card that let’s you spout any which vile rubbish you want, and then later saying “Nah, nah, nah. You can’t touch me. 'Twasn’t fact, it was just an opinion.” Well newsflash dudes, opinions count in my book.
Of course, some posters are desperately trying to make this into some kind of partisan issue. That I’m a commie loving pinko European, and they are pitted for being conservatives. Just goes to show how remote you guys are from reality. It has nothing to do with the right or left on the political scale, it has to do with your opinion that voting for the PSOE was somehow caving in to terrorists, giving them what they want.
And even though some take offense at being lumped together with obvious morons, such as Maud’Dib, Brutus and SlyFrog, well that’s the point, isn’t it? Just because some posters voice an opinion in expletives and an inflammatory style, doesn’t make ‘your ilk’ any better. The same opinion, wrapped in icer language and with condoleances to the victims and their families, is still the same opinion, to wit: “Terrorist are bad people, we’re at war with the terrorists, anyone who gives in to them is actually helping them, the Spanish gave in, therefore they helped the terrorists and our righteous war against them will be even harder now.”
And that’s why I can’t retract what I said about you, GoHeels. You didn’t go off, calling the Spaniards cowards, and you showed a lot of restraint, but you did say the following:
With this, you basically sided with the rest of the group, saying that the actions in Spain will affect things in the US.
And that’s the heart of the matter. People who use this tragedy for a partisan spin, to see this as a way to justify the war in Iraq and the fight of AQ. It’s not that we shouldn’t try to exterminate AQ, it’s the fact that you’re trying to put blame on the Spaniards for future actions by AQ, thereby using the tragedy for your own political agendas. I could as well say that Spain should blame Americans for 9/11, since the success of that attack encouraged them to keep bombing civilian targets around the world, including the Madrid Metro. A totally preposterous statement/opinion, an idea I would never evene get. Yet you do that very thing here. And that’s why you’re being pitted.
However, I will retract and extend an apology to mehitabel. You’re one of those who clearly changed your mind, the further the thread went on. Seeing your post in this thread and realizing your own emotional involvment makes me think I might have erred in including you.
On the other hand, if6was9, showed up here, with his “first hint of pain”, so I guess the count still stand at 17.
As for linking to the profiles - um - they’re your public profiles on a public message board.
I said I woud never react again to posts of this member, but this just isn’t reasonable anymore.
So Mehitabel, you fanatic with the most vivid fantasy of the whole lot that posts here, open for once your blinded eyes and read what I write:
Yes you are indeed “over-reacting” and not a little bit, you childish fool.
Everyone who manages to twist a joke into a “threat”, let be makes of it that people want him/her DEAD must suffer from severe braindamage.
A poster on a website who manages to claim that she must fear for her life because an other poster wrote something to her in jest, shows herself to be completely braindead.
Did you get it?
Fine.
Goodbye then. I don’t discuss with a zombie.
Salaam. A
I was going to start a similar thread. Now I’m glad I didn’t. The Gaspode, thank you for your eloquence, though clearly the “seventeen” should be reduced somewhat.
On a personal note, it is usual for Dublin dopers to extend the hand of friendship to any and all dopers from other countries, should they visit. Mehitabel, though we disagree about a few things, I would happily buy you a Guinness and spend an evening talking shite with you. But I shall say in the strongest possible terms in this context, should this Dublin doper inadvertantly find himself in the same pub as Muad’Dib, not only would he not offer to buy him a drink, he would actually leave the premises.
The Gaspode, that was a brilliant and eloquent post, a timely counter to the many ‘shame on Spain’ threads that I’ve been reading. Superbly done, thank you.
Again, this is unfair. You pitted “17 Dopers who think Spaniards are cowards.” Why do I get the sense I’m being pitted for political unreliability?
I said that the Spanish people voted the way they wished, as is their right, and I respect the results, even though I can’t say I’m happy with them.
And yes, I did say look for repeat occurrences in countries aligned with the US, such as the UK, Italy, Netherlands, etc. But I wrote the line you quoted immediately after I wrote:
"And al-Qaeda will see the results of the atrocity it perpetrated on Thursday the way it wants to see it: “Violence used to intimidate citizens in democratic countries WORKS.”
All I am saying is that different people will have different interpretations of the election. The Spanish people who voted in the majority may interpret the results of the election as sweeping away a government that a) allegedly lied about who perpetrated the bombing for political purposes and b) brought Spain into an illegal war in Iraq led by the US against the will of its population.
Fair enough.
However, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume al-Qaeda (or like-minded Islamic totalitarians) will interpret the Spanish election its own way, as in: “It is in our interest to drive a wedge between our greatest enemy, America, and its allies, leaving America isolated. A well-timed operation in Spain served as a model for how to peel America away from its allies, since the incoming Spanish government will be much less aligned with America. Why not try the same thing in other countries allied with the US, or maybe even the US itself?” Obviously, I hope I’m wrong, but I fear I’m not.
That’s a far cry from calling the Spanish people cowards because of the way they voted, which was the point of your OP.
And if al-Qaeda does bomb other countries as I fear, Gaspode, rest assured that I will blame al-Qaeda, and only al-Qaeda, for the act. If they bomb France because of the hijab ban, I will blame al-Qaeda, not the French for their law. If they bomb the UK, I will blame al-Qaeda, not the UK for being allies of the US nor Spain for setting a “precedent.”
To accuse the Spanish of “cowardice” or “appeasement” in this circumstance is a specific insult to the Spanish and, in general, to humanity. Excellent OP.
Gaspode you owe me an apology for including me in a group that has said or even hinted at Spaniards being cowards when I specifically stated that I didn’t think that was the case. No, I’m not to blame “less so than others;” I’m not to blame at all. This is the poster-thread for all that is contrary to the SDMB - overgeneralizing, misattributing statements, pathetic attempts to curry favor, and mindless bandwagon jumping by those who are only brave enough to show up to a pit thread if it’s about kicking puppies. I really do expect an apology.
A wonderfully heartfelt OP…
Gaspode, a few (hopefully non-partisan) points of my own:
The Spanish voted just four days after what was probably the most traumatic event in their country for seventy-odd years. It would be harsh to judge peoples motives for voting under those circumstances… perhaps the elections should have been postponed?
I’m no expert on terrorism, but even as the first reports came in I knew it wasn’t ETA… the Spanish Government’s insistence that ETA was responsible did them no favours and could have been interpreted as extremely cynical misinformation. I beleive this was a major factor in the elections even though, from news reports I heard at the time, it seemed that the Spanish public were blaming ETA.
Al Quaida (yes, I spell it with a ‘u’ because ‘q’ is always followed by a ‘u’ and to not follow a ‘q’ with a ‘u’ would be giving in to moslem fundamenalim, rant, rant, rant…) will see this election as a result. Whatever the rights and wrongs, the bombings will have been perceived to have changed the Spanish government.
Back to the quote… maybe I’m misunderstanding you, but you seem to be implying that only one side are trying to make it a partisan issue. From where I’m standing it seems like there are plenty of people from both sides who are trampling through the bodies of the dead to score cheap political points.
Wow, now I see you didn’t even contribute to the very post that you’re pitting.
This thread is for your own vanity and nothing else.
Well, you’re not going to get it, as this post sealed it for me:
Bolding, mine.
On preview:
And you’re wrong, KidCharlemagne, I posted once in the GD thread. And why should I have to participate in the original pit thread?
On preview, Mascaroni, true enough, regarding people from both sides of the political scale trying to score points. But my beef in this is calling a people I know and love cowards, appeasers, or implying that they’re giving in to terrorists. That’s so blatantly ignorant, that I don’t know what they’re doing in a place like this.
I do have a suspicions though, that had PSOE been in power, and the table reversed, voting the conservative People’s Party (not popular, BTW) into power, some of our more vocal conservatives would not be posting in those threads. That’s pure speculation, on my part though, but I think that the fact that socialdemocrats came into power plays a part in it all (think of socialdemocrats as proponents of the welfare state, not socialism).
You’re kidding, right? This is a joke. Tell me it’s a joke because it’s either a joke or the stupidest thing I’ve read in, well, in the last three hours.
In case this is not a joke, it is perfectly acceptable to follow “Q” with a letter other than “U” when transcribing Arabic. The name of the country is “Qatar”, not “Quatar”.
Actually, I think I’ve been duped. It is a joke. It’s pretty good actually.
[Nitpick] So the coalition invaded Iraqu, did it?
And you consider the US Military to be Islamic fundamentalists? As well as the Albanians and Chinese? [/Nitpick]
Have I been whooshed? How embarrassing.
It was a joke… not even a good one… not even original… it might be the stupidest thing you’ve read in the last three hours, though…
You’d have been smarter to just admit that you’d a mistake then bring this up to defend yourself. All you’ve displayed is the inability to understand ironic understatement. But I know you’re not that dumb–just unable to admit a mistake. Since you probably won’t let it go, I’ll write up a reply for you to cut and paste:
Kid Charlemagne, how dare you use ironic understatement when hundreds of innocent people have been killed! Your a gutless, heartless, Mansonian! Don’t you realize rational thought has to be abandoned when realllllllly bad things happen?
I’m hoping at least one “opponent” from the other thread has the guts to come in and tell you that grouping me with those calling the Spanish cowards is just plain wrong and intellectually dishonest.