The Spanish people has my most honest admiration. They showed the whole world how democracy works and how to react when terrorism hits a country and its citizens. They have lived with this threat and reality since decades, yet showed on a most impressive way they aren’t beaten down by it and shall never give in to it.
Massive protest marches started already on the very day 200 people were murdered and estimated 1400 were wounded in the most horrible terrorist attack Spain has ever seen.
The next day they marched again and in the company of representatives of the other EU nations.
Estimated 12 million of Spaniards marched in cities all over Spain to express their determination to beat terrorism, be it ETA or foreign.
While victims of the attacks are buried and other still are fighting for their lives in the hospitals, the Spanish people set candles and leaves flowers at the scenes of the crime.
They wept and reacted with all grades of shock, contempt and outrage to these horrible events.
Yet, in the meantime they managed to keep their heads cool enough to detect the manipulative tactics of their government. They wanted the truth, demanded the truth and weren’t satisfied with the way they were answered.
With the victims of the attacks not all buried yet and others still fighting for their lives, they went to use their democratic rights and voted the lying, deceiving, war-mongering, arrogant Bush-licking Aznar and his PP out of office.
I am impressed still by the sight of these 12 million who marched through Spain in the pouring rain and without any reported incident. United and with remarkable dignity they expressed their shock, grieve, rage and determination to eradicate terrorism from their home and soil and to point their chosen government at its responsibilities.
And to all those who on this board or the BBQ-thing show the arrogance to comment in the most arrogant and rude way on the Spanish population:
Why don’t you go to Madrid and tell the Spanish there face to face that they are cowards, while you buy flowers and a candle to put it with the hundreds of others at the places where all those people died or got wounded.
Maybe such confrontation shall cure you from your disgusting arrogance. Can you before you leave explain to me where your utterly stupid idea that you can tell people of an other nation – any other nation - how they “should vote” comes from? Do you possess a functioning brain or was that something nature forgot to give you at birth?
Can someone of the US’ers present here tell me why we don’t see US citizens march in protest against their government day after day?
How much more lies and how much more bloodshed in other nations - caused by your military or caused by the reactions of terrorists to your military actions - do you need to wake up to the reality that your government is the dreamed one for every terrorist who wants to recrute for his lunatical plans against the USA?
Salaam. A
Protest against what exactly? Efforts to prevent terrorists indiscriminately killing US Citizens and other innocent bystanders regardless of nationality, faith or political disposition?
Ah. I see. The US deserved it and by extension, Spain deserved it. Now that the Spanish populace has voted to capitulate in a spate of national shock and grief the terrorists will just go away. :rolleyes:
You must be joking. Or are you deaf, blind and locked up in a cellar that you aren’t aware of the fact that your president and government lied, deceived, manipulated the US population in supporting the invasion and occupaiton of a sovereign nation, killing thousands of people and creating the greatest havoc possibile?
The rest of your post is utterly unclear to me. I think you need to clarify.
Salaam. A
Aldebaran, current US sociopolitical culture simply is NOT “into” to mass rallying to denounce the government. The last time anything like that happened there was in the late 60s-early 70s, and prior to that during the early Depression. And both were times where there were great crises causing pain right there at home – it was not the VN war that first mobilized mass protests in the 60s, it was the Civil Rights for Black Americans movement. As things stand right now, public opinion in the USA is pretty evenly divided and neither side is sufficiently “radicalized” about it.
Many Americans believe that the President was mistaken and took facts to fit an ideology, not that he outright lied. That’s something YOU have to get into your head. I know your Saudi outlook might make it hard, but if you’re asking Americans to believe that the Spanish voting was not something we should be concerned or worried about, then you must try to understand the American outlook of people who either support or are not sure about Bush’s actions. Right? That’s only logical.
Let me simplify further for you:
If your point is that no sovereign nation should concern itself with the internal politics of another, then you, as a Saudi, should not concern yourself with the American presidential election. And insulting the entire populace–in GD! in the OP!–is no way to influence anybody.
We will listen to our thoughtful foreign friends, but you are making it very difficult not to tune you and those who sound like you out. I plan to vote for Kerry because I think he will carry on the good work–and there’s been a lot of good work–that Bush has started, with a better tone and sense of diplomacy. It’s that simple. I don’t have to pull that lever with a burning hatred of Bush in my very soul.
Maybe you should be using this energy you seem to have to help the reforrm movements in your home country? Poverty and boredom and ideology are what’s making the problems in the Middle East more than the West’s clumsy attempts to help out.
I don’t know why I get myself into these sorts of things, but in looking over her posts in general, I think Aldebaran is really a pretty good person. Anyone with me?
Aldebaran, you’re correct in that it was a fine example of how a democracy works. However, do you think it’s reasonable and prudent to change your vote on the basis of a single emotional event that hasn’t really sunk in yet? I only ask that because according to the polls I have seen, there was a swing of approximately 11% from the incumbent party to the eventual winning party.
Decisions made on the basis of emotion are rarely good ones. And that goes for the US as well, since that objection is inevitable.
Wow… UK and the US were terrorists in WWII ? I think the US is on the wrong side this time… and hopefully Spain is the turning point. Good sense is advancing and taking over the world again.
This has been covered in many other threads on the subject, but we should not exaggerate the swing. Right before the attacks, the difference between the two parties was about 4% in the polls. 4% is less than the margin of error which means, effectively, that there was no way to tell who was going to win. To that, you have to add the fact that there was as much as 25% of the electorate that was undecided. The election results are probably much more a case of undecided voters losing what faith they had in the ruling party than PP voters turning PSOE.
Between moments of wiping the froth from your mouth did you miss the sentence where I clearly stated I was referencing Afghanistan and not Iraq?
Further, he’s not “my” President. I’m not American.
Fine, then allow me to clarify. You state:
The critical statement here is that you propose that the terrorists commit “bloodshed” in response to US military action. So you’re saying the US brings terrorist action upon themselves. That they deserve it, its their own damn fault, yes? For the sake of amusement, what Military Action on the part of the US government was the impetus for the the first attack on the World Trade Center? The attack on the USS Cole? The 911 Attacks?
As for the OP, despite the misleading title, just another post from Aldebaran about what awful people Americans are, and thus unworthy of serious response.
Also, let’s not forget the portion of voters who previously did not vote, but turned out for this election because they had something to say. I’d be very interested to know what voter participation percentages were, and if they were higher than normal.
