I assume it is a closed-back cabinet? For high overdrive tones, a closed-back cab is much, much better choice vs. open-backed cabs…
Ok. I think I’ve decided. I’m buying the Marshall DSL 100H for $550 off a guy and a 1960A with Celestion 75s in there for $400. That seems like a pretty good deal based on my research and the DSL 100 seems to be pretty well regarded in its price range.
Thoughts?
To me, that’s good sound at a good price. I’d be very happy to make this deal. 
Done deal. Brought it home for $950 total.
Here it is! http://i61.tinypic.com/2mg18hg.jpg
It glows! http://i62.tinypic.com/25ozxg6.jpg
Not going to be able to play it much till later this week. Thanks for the advice!
But does it go to eleven?
Nice price for a Marshall half stack. Anything in particular make you decide against the Bugera?
It only goes to ten.
It was an easy decision after the guy sold it. 
Beyond the good price, all of this new would have cost ~$1800, I actually really like the brown mesh on this old cab. I think it looks cooler than a straight black face.
The head is the 2012 version and the cab isn’t one of the newer reissues, it’s actually from the mid 80’s which is why it’s so surprising that the thing is in such clean shape.
ETA: I’ve never owned a tube amp and have a couple questions:
- There are 4 large tubes and 4 smaller tubes inside. Do they fail catastrophically or do they degrade over time?
- How will I know if one “burns out”? Is the glow the only indication or will I lose a channel?
- I’ve read alot about mods people do to these heads. Putting different tubes in particular. How big of a difference in sound does the specific tube make?
- Also read a bit about people biasing the tubes. Is this something I should do?
You chose wisely, IMO. The DSL series are some of the best-regarded Marshalls of the last two decades for good reason. Really, really nice amps. Should be a plug-and-play winner for what you’re doing unless your new band is on some really extreme powerviolence shit. 
Is there another guitarist in your band? If so, what does (s)he use?
The four large ones are your power tubes. In a stock Marshall DSL100, they should be EL34s. The smaller ones are your preamp tubes. They should be labeled either 12AX7 or ECC83 (same tube in American or European nomenclature).
Power tubes are like strings: occasionally they fail catastrophically, but more often they gradually wear out, becoming weaker and deader over a long time. Preamp tubes are similar, but generally far longer lasting due to the much lower currents to which they are exposed.
If you play long, loud, and often, you might need to replace your power tubes every year. Otherwise, they can last quite a few years. I have a set in my Mesa that have been going strong for four or five years: I would estimate they have almost 2000 hours on them.
Preamp tubes, if they don’t take physical damage, can last literally decades. I know guys who have pulled preamp tubes out of 1950s stereo equipment and dropped them into guitar amps, where they provide good service to this day.
The power tubes in your amp are paired. In Marshalls, I believe the inner two are a pair and the outer two are the other pair. (Download a manual from Marshall rather than take my word on that one.) If a power tube fails catastrophically, you may get anything from a drastic drop in volume and increase in noise, to blowing a fuse. If it happens, you will know. (When it happens, come back and I’m happy to walk you through figuring out which tube died.) Not common, though; I’ve played tube amps for 25 years and have only had one power tube completely fry on me in all that time.
Preamp tubes failing usually manifest as a loss of volume and/or gain. Depending on which tube goes, it may affect both channels or only one. Preamp tubes can also go “microphonic,” meaning that little metal bits inside physically oscillate, causing a high pitched feedback-like sound. All these problems are easily solved by replacing the preamp tube in question - good ones are cheap and last a super long time. Again, if you think you may have a problem preamp tube, come back to the thread and I’m happy to walk you through the diagnostic process.
Swapping power tubes makes, IMO, a minor but sometimes audible difference. I think “power tube rolling,” as it’s called, is overrated as a method of upgrading or changing tone, at least in modern high-gain amps like yours or mine. In terms of things that affect/change tone, for example, I would place power tubes far, far, far behind pickups or speakers, and they’re all in the same general price neighborhood.
Swapping preamp tubes is cheaper, easier (since they don’t require biasing), and makes a more immediately noticeable difference. I have a box full of extra preamp tubes that I have used and come to know over the years, and I store them with little notes (“really hot,” “whoa bright,” “warm and dark,” etc.) so that I can swap them into amps when I’m looking to change the tone.
Unless there’s a problem, the only time an amp needs biasing is when new power tubes are installed. Bias refers to how much current the tubes are being fed while idling (i.e. while the amp is on, but you aren’t playing). Bias set too low or high (“cold” or “hot” in guitar parlance) can affect tone and tube life. Biasing isn’t super hard to do, but requires some equipment and practice. Unless you’re really planning to get into the techy end of things, I would leave it to the pros.
Mid and treble sound frequencies are very directional with regard to volume. You can hear yourself better at practice if at least one or more speaker is at ear level or at least oriented toward one’s head via tilting. That can be tough to accomplish with only a single 4x12 but consider setting it on top of something else if possible. Use earplugs if loud. Some styles of music must be practiced LOUD!!! I totally understand that. The dynamics can be way different at lower volume.
FWIW, I’ve always preferred tubes over solid state amps for guitar. SS is more acceptable for bass in my experience. Tube amps are more maintenance and hassles and heavier to carry but the trade off is worth it.
Both. The tubes degrade over time and can suddenly fail prematurely in the meantime. Quality control on tube manufacturing has declined a lot since hospitals and militaries stopped using them for the most part 30+ years ago. The larger power tubes typically need to be replaced more often than the smaller pre-amp tubes. You can swap the pre-amp tubes yourself if you have the correct type(s). Swapping pre-amp tubes can also be a fun way to alter or improve the tone of the amp. Take the amp to a proper tech for power tube replacement if you don’t have experience with doing so.
You will stop hearing anything musical if a power tube fails and it should likely cause a fuse to blow as well. The tube will be discolored afterward depending on the type of failure. Sometimes power tubes blink a glowing red color (“red plating”) prior to failure. Sometimes power tubes get noisy before they fail although not common in my experience.
Pre-amp tubes start making a hissing or popping sound or just generally have a loss in tone over time. I’ve never had one completely fail. Tap on each one while playing to isolate the noisy one if that becomes an issue. Or, you could just replace all of them and see if the noise goes away.
Using different tubes isn’t a modification in my opinion. Using a soldering to make circuitry changes is a mod. Swapping pre-amp tubes can make a big difference (varies depending on the amp) in gain or clean headroom and, to a lesser extent, the tonal flavor. The lifetime of power tubes varies a whole lot but I never notice much difference in tone.
The power tubes should have the current properly biased upon installation. I suggest taking the head to a proper amp tech. Perhaps you can learn from a tech in person to do this at some point, but it would be difficult to explain online…there are electrical danger precautions to understand…and I have not opened up that specific model amp head.
First of all, congratulations on your new rig.
If/when you find yourself replacing a power amp tube due to age, I’d recommend you replace the pair (as stated upthread, they work in pairs).
Thanks. Lot’s of good information here. Couple more questions for you since you’re here.
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The pre-amp circuit is what provides the “over drive” correct? If I’m running totally clean then the pre-amp is essentially zeroed out right? As I turn up the gain I increase the distortion.
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The power side is strictly volume and has no effect on overdrive or distortion etc…
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I have an old faithful Boss MZ2 pedal that I like quite a bit. If I use that (obviously through the clean channel) am I completely negating the benefit of having a tube amp? I’m not married to the MZ2, and think I’ll be able to get a killer sound using the head alone, but I’m asking just in case.
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Distortion vs. Overdrive. When to use each term. Overdrive is when an amplifier is pushed into saturation? Distortion is a digital effect that alters the waveform directly? Does that sound right? So my amp has overdrive, but not distortion. My MZ2 is a distortion pedal but not overdrive.
I’m swamped at work and the posts have been good, so I have let the others drive.
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Yes, the preamp adds crunch to the signal via the Gain control
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The Power amp tubes DO add to the tone. Not as directly as the preamp but they do matter.
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Overdrive = meant to mimic/increase tube amp’s natural tendencies; Distortion = more aggressive - it clips the soundwave more vs. overdrive; Fuzz = even more aggressive. If you want a lot more on this, I strongly recommend Dave Hunter’s book on guitar effects…
*1) The pre-amp circuit is what provides the “over drive” correct? If I’m running totally clean then the pre-amp is essentially zeroed out right? As I turn up the gain I increase the distortion. *
The short answer would be “yes” to all this.
2) The power side is strictly volume and has no effect on overdrive or distortion etc…
At lower volumes, this is true. However, as you crank the amp, the power amp begins to compress, then to distort. Power amp distortion has a different sound and feel than preamp distortion, and it’s prized by players in a lot of musical styles. However, a 100 watt amp like yours will not produce appreciable power amp clipping at anything below stadium volume. Tons of research and gadgets have gone into figuring out how to get authentic-sounding power amp distortion at manageable volumes, and the new wave of 5-10 watt “lunchbox” amps are targeted at people who want that.
By comparison, modern heavy sounds get their gain almost exclusively from the preamp - hell, Dimebag Darrell famously used a (fairly cheap) solid state amp for his classic tones. Your classic hard rock sound (think AC/DC’s first four albums) is a nice combination of the two types of distortion. The preamp sound is definitely dirty, but there’s a nice deep crunch that tells you the amp is cranked pretty hard.
3) I have an old faithful Boss MZ2 pedal that I like quite a bit. If I use that (obviously through the clean channel) am I completely negating the benefit of having a tube amp? I’m not married to the MZ2, and think I’ll be able to get a killer sound using the head alone, but I’m asking just in case.
If you use the MZ through the clean channel, you will be more or less negating the reason you got the amp. If you spend some time putting the amp through its paces, especially at a decent volume, I think you’ll find it sounds a lot better than the Metal Zone.
4) Distortion vs. Overdrive. When to use each term. Overdrive is when an amplifier is pushed into saturation? Distortion is a digital effect that alters the waveform directly? Does that sound right? So my amp has overdrive, but not distortion. My MZ2 is a distortion pedal but not overdrive.
Overdrive and distortion are more or less synonymous in guitar-speak. Technically, overdrive is what’s happening to the circuit, and distortion is what’s happening to the waveform, but in common conversation they both refer to the sound. Your amp has two channels. One of them is specially designed to overdrive the preamp tubes, which generates a distorted guitar tone. A distortion pedal, which is actually nothing more than a portable preamp that you are sticking in front of your amp’s own preamp, is the same thing…only solid state and made with cheaper parts.
Overdrive, distortion, fuzz… okay, here’s how I think about them:
You have a clean sine wave going into a box. Coming out of that box is a larger clean sine wave. This is “clean”.
You have the same input going into a box. Coming out is a larger sine wave with the positive and negative peaks clipped or flat topped a bit. This is “overdrive”.
Same situation but the output is even more clipped. That’s “distortion”
Same situation but the output is a square wave, not a clipped sine wave. This is “fuzz”.
If I have an amp with a good distortion channel, I’m not going to bother with a distortion foot pedal to play through the clean channel.
Hi,
another over 40 half stack owner here.
A DSL and 1960 is a nice place to be.
A 1x12 with something like an EV 12 would be nice when you don’t need the 412.
Find a good local tech and be nice to him. Your amp has 400+ volts DC inside :eek:
Have fun…
The “some reason” is that he had a tube amp and you had solid state. The power section of your SS amp has to be completely clean (no distortion) otherwise it sounds like crap. The power section of his tube amp doesn’t need to be clean at all, in fact as it gets overdriven it starts sounding better. That gave him a huge amount of extra volume to play with.
I hope you enjoy your new amp, you certainly won’t have any trouble being heard through one of those. I used to have a 60W 4x10 tube amp that I never turned up above 4 even for un-mic’d gigs.
Thanks. I’ve learbed a lot in this thread.
If I run my tuner thru the effects loop it’s always on correct? Meaning it’s alaways in the signal chain? If I turn the tuner off it won’t effect my sound right?
I’m pretty sure it will go silent when you turn the tuner off, since that’s part of the signal chain through the amp (unless the tuner just passes the signal through when it’s off, which is possible, mine doesn’t). If it has a “tuner out”, then you can use that and turn the tuner off.