Gun question in GQ

[pkbites]

@pikey_pete

Ok, as a gun owner (please don’t vilify me, I’m not a Hestonite NRA worshiper, just a guy who likes venison and target shooting,) I really question pk’s fitness for firearm ownership. I firearm is a tool, like a shovel, a pick axe, or a chainsaw. It is a tool though, which requires a great deal of personal responsibility and IMHO personal integrity. If I am transporting my firearm anywhere outside of my home state, you can be damned sure that I have checked all the laws and ordinances pertaining to firearms wherever I happen to be taking my gun(s). I ship my ammunition separately to avoid any problems which may inconvenience myself or others (like getting a flight stopped because a bomb dog smelled my ammo in baggage.) I keep a trigger lock on my firearms at all times, unless I plan to use it. Oh yeah, refer back to that first thing…the knowing all applicable laws and ordinances. This means that I don’t need to go waving my metapenis around in a forum. all fill-in-the-state.gov websites can provide you with all the information you need. Its people like pk who give gun owners a bad name and image. Too bad there are so many pks who own firearms. Oh yeah, even though I do have a valid TX CCL, i have never carried my gun concealed ever. my guns only leave the house to go to the range or the deer lease, and when they do they are in a locked hard case.

Never did I ask WHAT the laws are. I know what they are, both NYC laws and federal laws.

I asked about how the locals may react regarding those laws. Those are 2 different things.

How the hell does an off duty cop who wishes to exercise a privilege he has under the law give gun owners a bad name?

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

@pikey_pete

Ok, as a gun owner (please don’t vilify me, I’m not a Hestonite NRA worshiper, just a guy who likes venison and target shooting,) I really question pk’s fitness for firearm ownership.

As a hardcore anti-gun guy, I want to know what the hell you’re smoking. Would you think it was less weird if he wanted to open carry?

[pkbites]

@Really_Not_All_That_Bright

Would you think it was less weird if he wanted to open carry?

I open carry too. In fact, I just got back from walking my dog this morning and I OC’d the entire time. And I’ve open carried in other states too where it was legal. One needn’t be a police officer to open carry where it is legal.

I’m certainly not going to do it NYC. It’s not legal and the federal law does not cover open carry.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Yes, but you haven’t said anything about it in this thread or the one that spawned it. I grok the “piece flashing” stuff with regard to open carry, and as you say it’s not legal in NY.

I’m just wondering what you said that makes pikey pete think you’re an irresponsible gun owner.

[pikey_pete]

what I’m saying is that if you know the laws you should know what to expect. It is that simple. I just have a problem with people who are essentially asking a useless question. it seems like they are trying to force the matter of gun ownership in a way which makes them look a little bit like paranoid hestonites. Seriously. it is really easy. If you know the laws and don’t violate them, what does it really matter what local reaction is going to be? The simplest way to avoid problems is to just assume that the locals are going to take the strictest interpretation of the law. No unpleasant surprises that way. That is the level of personal responsibility needed for gun owners IMHO. Asking what to expect just makes it seem like you’re looking for what you can get away with before you get in trouble. it doesn’t look good and it makes anti-gun people feel less safe than they already feel. Oh yeah, one other little thing, I know enough LEOs from enough jurisdictions, and have paid enough attention to the news, to think that the brits may be on to something. Essentially only their SWAT/anti-terror teams are allowed to carry weapons.

[D_Odds]

@pikey_pete

Seriously. it is really easy. If you know the laws and don’t violate them, what does it really matter what local reaction is going to be? The simplest way to avoid problems is to just assume that the locals are going to take the strictest interpretation of the law. No unpleasant surprises that way.

So, if I use my phone to record a LEO (a public servant) arresting someone in public, I should assume that by the strictest definition of wiretapping laws that I am going to be arrested? Because that is what some departments/states have done.

It is good to know the general tone of an area. From what I’m reading via these two threads, NYC is very, very strict with its interpretation and liable to hassle someone legally carrying. That is not to say that every officer will behave in the same manner, but it seems to be an overall tone. If I were a gun owner who could legally conceal carry in NYC, I would take that into account in deciding whether or not to carry a firearm.

The Brits are not on to anything. It is a radically different culture (despite the somewhat common language)*. Maybe in a few centuries the “gun culture” (for lack of a better term) of the US can abate, but it won’t happen in our lifetimes.

*Despite the differences, the lack of firearms in their constabulary stems from the same reason that some more radical gun owners want to have firearms - a fear of authority abusing its power.

[ExTank]

@D_Odds

So, if I use my phone to record a LEO (a public servant) arresting someone in public, I should assume that by the strictest definition of wiretapping laws that I am going to be arrested? Because that is what some departments/states have done.

You might also assume, based upon past history of the NYPD, that, in NYC, you might be arrested and then sodomized with either your phone, or the handle of a toilet plunger. Possibly both. Just to show you how to keep your place, you uppity peasant.

Come see the violence inherent in the system!

[R.P.McMurphy]

I wonder if anybody read any of the data i linked to in post #105?

http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp

All data is sourced.

Here’s just a piece that is particularly relevant to this thread:

Dangers of Permissive Carrying Concealed Weapons (CCW) Laws

Shall-issue laws permitting the carrying of concealed firearms (CCW) (where law enforcement has no discretion in issuing a permit or license) do not appear to reduce crime, and no credible statistical evidence exists that such permissive CCW laws reduce crime. There is evidence permissive CCW laws generally will increase crime.59

A National Academy of Sciences report reviewing existing data on the effectiveness of firearm laws, including research purporting to demonstrate that concealed carry (also called “right-to-carry”) laws reduce crime, found that the “evidence to date does not adequately indicate either the sign or the magnitude of a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.”60

An analysis of Texas’ CCW law, (a law adopted in 1995 that overturned the state’s 125-year ban on concealed weapons), found that between January 1, 1996 and August 31, 2001, Texas license holders were arrested for 5,314 crimes, including murder, rape, kidnapping and theft.61

From 1996 to 2000, Texas CCW holders were arrested for weapons-related crimes at a rate 81% higher than that of the state’s general population age 21 and older.62

Since the Texas law took effect, more than 400 criminals – including rapists and armed robbers – had been issued CCW permits, and thousands of the 215,000 permit holders have been arrested for criminal behavior or found to be mentally unstable.63 The “largest category of problem licensees involve[d] those who committed crimes after getting their state” permits.64

Florida’s CCW system had, just in the first half of 2006, licensed more than 1,400 individuals who had pleaded guilty or no contest to felonies, 216 individuals with outstanding warrants, 128 people with active domestic violence injunctions against them, and six registered sex offenders.65

For additional information about the carrying of concealed weapons, including information on the dangers posed by carrying guns in public, see LCAV’s Report America Caught in the Crossfire: How Concealed Carry Laws Threaten Public Safety and our Carrying Concealed Weapons Policy Summary.

[pkbites]

@R.P.McMurphy

Here’s just a piece that is particularly relevant to this thread:

No it isn’t. I don’t carry with a CCW license.

[R.P.McMurphy]

@pkbites

No it isn’t. I don’t carry with a CCW license.

In the broader context, yes, it is relevant.

BTW, where are you going to buy your Glock in NYC? I never see any gun stores. Maybe they are there but I just have never seen any. Are you going to slide into the Brownsville section of Brooklyn and start chatting up dudes on the street to see who has one that is available? Maybe you could call a cop friend, if you have any in NYC. They all hide an unregistered one by the spare tire in the trunk in case they have to frame someone that they mistakenly shot. What’s your plan?

[pkbites]

@R.P.McMurphy

In the broader context, yes, it is relevant.

BTW, where are you going to buy your Glock in NYC? I never see any gun stores. Maybe they are there but I just have never seen any. Are you going to slide into the Brownsville section of Brooklyn and start chatting up dudes on the street to see who has one that is available? Maybe you could call a cop friend, if you have any in NYC. They all hide an unregistered one by the spare tire in the trunk in case they have to frame someone that they mistakenly shot. What’s your plan?

I said the New York area. I might have to go outside the city to find a gun store selling handguns.

But if the need arose I could go into a gun store, buy a handgun, and walk out with it the same day. And this would be completely legal.

[R.P.McMurphy]

@pkbites

I said the New York area. I might have to go outside the city to find a gun store selling handguns.

But if the need arose I could go into a gun store, buy a handgun, and walk out with it the same day. And this would be completely legal.

Whoop-de-do! You are going to kill a day of your vacation getting out of the city just to buy a gun at a highly inflated price so that you can feel “secure”. Wow! It’s legal? Whooda thunk? Have at it. Man, you have some messed up priorities.

A better use of time and money would be to get you and your wife a couple of tickets to “Book of Mormon”. You will probably have to buy them from scalpers because it’s a sell-out but it will be worth it. The chances of you being shot or your wife being raped while in the theater are minimal. Check you cock, I mean Glock, at the door. You will be offended.

[pkbites]

@R.P.McMurphy

Whoop-de-do! You are going to kill a day of your vacation getting out of the city just to buy a gun at a highly inflated price so that you can feel “secure”.

Not going to need to anyway. My pistol is not going to be stolen out of my luggage like you wish it will.

[PlainJain]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

The “original question” is not why he’s wanting to carry. The real question is the one pkbites asked in the OP: what happens to people who legitimately concealed-carry in NYC. Does that clear it up?

To me it does not.

I own handguns. I am a member of the NRA. I support CCPs. Hell, I even support open carry ~ I did it when I lived in NM. But…

Is there really enough NY LEOs on this board who have confronted a retired cop from another state carrying a gun to expect a factual answer to this question? I’m sure there is as many different answers as there are cops in NY. It was a bullshit question to put in GQ, it should have been posted in IMHO.

[pkbites]

@PlainJain

It was a bullshit question to put in GQ, it should have been posted in IMHO.

And someone said quite a while ago that it may have been posted in the wrong forum.

Do your homework and tell us who said it.

[PlainJain]

@pkbites

And someone said quite a while ago that it may have been posted in the wrong forum.

Do your homework and tell us who said it.

Way to dodge to real issue.

[Triskadecamus]

@Rand_Rover

You and your ilk have such a talent for getting things exactly backwards.

Ooooo! Frank has a ilk!

I didn’t know.

Hey, Frank, is it registered? Can you move from state to state with it?

Tris

[Triskadecamus]

PK,

You need to get yourself an ilk, like Frank has.

Tris

[Maeglin]

@R.P.McMurphy

In the broader context, yes, it is relevant.

BTW, where are you going to buy your Glock in NYC? I never see any gun stores. Maybe they are there but I just have never seen any. Are you going to slide into the Brownsville section of Brooklyn and start chatting up dudes on the street to see who has one that is available? Maybe you could call a cop friend, if you have any in NYC. They all hide an unregistered one by the spare tire in the trunk in case they have to frame someone that they mistakenly shot. What’s your plan?

How long have you been in NYC again? And you’ve never heard of John Jovino?

[Maeglin]

FWIW, here is an article on the subject from earlier this year. I am a New Yorker, and I think this is quite apt.

But just as important, I am a New Yorker. In a city where we all live right on top of one another, playing with guns feels as out of place as wearing prairie dresses and engaging in plural marriage.

Different strokes, I suppose. I don’t wear white sneakers when I leave NYC, so I suppose that means cops can still carry their guns inside the city.