I saw this article and it reminded me of a dilemma that I have.
I never planned on having kids, then I met my wonderful wife and thought it might not be such a bad idea. We now have a daughter who recently turned one.
The ‘Santa Problem’ has surfaced.
We had discussed this, as I am (generally) a rationalist and didn’t think it wise to ‘lie to’ a child. I’ve never been big on Christmas either. My wife thinks it is the most magical times of the year and couldn’t disagree with me more. She has a pretty good way of ‘breaking the news’ as well, but I’d like to hear from the Teeming Millions.
What are your opinions on Santa? Should he be presented to small children as a real entity? When (and how) should the transition occur to a more ‘rational’ approach if Santa is indeed initially addressed as a real entity (which I am starting to see the merits of).
Intresting. I had this discussion with co-workers about a week ago, half of whom are parents. We all agreed that while it’s disappointing to learn the truth, there’s just something so magical and special about those handful of christmases when you know Santa is coming that it’s worth the pain of finding out it’s not true. In retrospect, I’d have been far more disappointed with my parents had they taken the “rational” route, and deprived me the joy of waiting for that special visit from Old Saint Nick. While it may make some people feel good to not lie to their kids, the kids miss out on something most of their contempories have. Unless it’s for religious beliefs, I don’t think banning Santa is the less of two evils.
I was deeply torn on this issue. My son, who is now 10, is and always has been very logical and practical. When he was 5, he asked if Santa was real, and I said no. He became very emotional, and his Mrs. WEW whisked in and covered my answer, so that he ended up beliving again.
I have been torn ever since. Is it better to perpetuate a lie that is nice, or to tell a painful truth? Maybe painful is a poor choice of words, I mean, my kids still get the same amount of presents at Christmas, Santa or no, so where’s the harm? I felt great guilt when I crushed his illusions, but I still feel guilt that I let the lie stand. This year, he has made a few comments that indicate that he knows the truth, but I’m not sure. I think he’s over it.
I guess in the end, I agree with elfkin477 who said
My thinking is that you have decades the be a rational adult, but only a few short years to be a child and believe in magic. For me, the Christmases when I believed in Santa meant that much more because of the magic involved, and my memories of happiness springing from the Santa myth are stronger than memories of disappointment at finding out the truth.
This year, my son doesn’t know of Christmas and such, but GrizzWife and I have already discussed a way of handling this when the time comes.
Her parents had a great way of handling the “Santa” thing. As a child she’d get presents from Santa, Mrs Santa, the elves, the reindeer, the snowman, etc. It was so ridiculous that, even as a child, she was aware that it was a game.
I think we’ll handle it that way with the GrizzCub.
WEW - in my Pit thread (“And the Jerk of the Year Award Goes To…”), I mentioned that when I asked my mother if Santa was real, she said “What do you think?”. When I was young, I decided that he was real. When I got older, I figured that he probably wasn’t. There was no huge shock for me in finding out the truth, because I’d been building to that logical conclusion on my own anyway. I think I was very lucky to have had Santa without a traumatic ending to the fantasy, but I think most kids will work it out on their own in time.
Funny, I remember being scared of witches when I was small, and my parents comforting me by telling me that there was no such thing as magic, but that didn’t affect my belief in Santa! And I remember lying in bed on Christmas Eve every year, unable to sleep and listening to my parents moving around in the room with the Christmas tree, and all kinds of rustling noises and wondering what they were doing, but not doubting Santa. Later, memories of these myserious rustlings helped me come to the conclusion that Santa wasn’t real. I think I could have put two and two together earlier, but didn’t want to. I remember the year before I stopped believing, I wondered if the rustling was them setting out presents, but I dismissed the idea straight away - I was old enough to figure out what was going on, but not ready to set aside Santa yet.
IMHO only of course, but I was devastated that my parents lied to me, and didn’t forgive them for a while. I once asked my mother why they lied to me, and she spoke for several minutes about my eyes lighting up seeing the presents and my smile when I saw the half eaten carrots and cookies. To be honest, I think the parents get more out of the whole Santa thing, than I ever did. At least they still remember the delight of those mornings, whereas I don’t.
While I am not permanently traumatised by this, I do remember how awful it felt. Being the second of two children, I think a lot of my hurt and anger was that it felt like everyone knew but me, and that they were all secretly laughing at the stupid little girl who still believed in Santa. My brother, OTOH, didn’t have a problem with the news, probably because he was “let in” on a secret, that his little sister still didn’t know about.
The other side of the coin, however, is that I wouldn’t want to be left out, when other kids were getting extra Santa presents. (whether or not they were wouldn’t matter, it’s how it looks to a kid)
I think I like the ** GrizzRich** approach, where they aren’t really getting left out, but they also aren’t being explicitly lied to.
Parent of (almost) six year old and 3 year old checking in. We have always made a big point of making sure that our kids can distinguish between real and make-believe. This was something I mainly started to combat the crap that they can get from television. I make a point to discuss what they have watched on the TV (Can people really fly like that? That’s not real, is it?) So at a fairly early age they have been able, for the most part, to distinguish between the two.
When it comes to things like Santa, St. Nicholas (we do both, a holdover from living in Germany), Easter Bunny, whatever, they have a sense that it is part of the fun of pretending. They do a lot of make believe and pretending in their play together. Since we live in an area with a lot of Jewish neighbors, I already got the question a couple of months ago, from the three year old, “Do you believe in God, Buddha* or Santa Claus?” I tried to explain that they weren’t necessarily exclusive beliefs, that some people believed in more than one of these.
So I hope that I’ve equipped them with some of the critical thinking skills to reason it out, when they’re ready, similar to Cazzle’s mother’s answer. My daughter said for a while that she believed in God, not Santa. Which is kind of amusing anyway, since we don’t practice any religion in our family. She picked up God from other young kids. Now that Christmas is near she is pretty excited about Santa Claus coming. Not sure if she sees at as a game, or she is unclear, or whatever. I think that she wants to believe in Santa so that she’ll get presents, which IMO is part of the magic of Santa Claus.
[sub]*We also lived in Thailand for a while so the Buddha thing is more natural than it seems.[/sub]
I remember crying when my mom finally told me that she and Dad were Santa, but not because it killed Santa (I’d already heard from friends), but because it was the first time I felt like “one of the adults” and it was a strange new feeling. I had flower-child-children friends whose parents didn’t want to lie to them, and now they tell me they’re jealous of all us who grew up with Santa in our lives.
If you tell your kids that there is not a Santa, then you have to worry about them blabbing it at school, and ruining some other kid(s) Christmas.
BTW, I think your kids should believe in Santa.
I can’t remember exactly what we told our daughter, or when she decided that Santa is a myth. I do remember when I was six or seven my brother saying, ‘Do you still believe in Father Christmas?!’ It surprised me but didn’t bother me. I just thought, ‘Oh,’ and almost instantly reconciled all the improbabilities/contradictions (e.g. How does Santa visit every house in the world in one night? How does he fit down our natural gas flue? etc) that had been building in my mind along with the convoluted explanations. I think I felt better – at first a little embarrassed – but then quite at ease. I still looked forward to Christmas.
Every situation is different, and it is probably easier for siblings or friends to handle some of the disillusioning; if they are not callous, they might actually be more able to deliver the home truths with better timing and less trauma than parents do. Just a thought.
In the spirit of the original New York Sun editorial:
Santa Claus truly does exist but no the way you and I do. Santa is and always has been a part of Christmas for as long as I can remember. He is both everywhere, in each and every one of us who celebrate Christmas, and nowhere, in that he is not just one person. Santa is the spirit of Christmas. For Santa to not exist is as likely as Christmas to not exist. Whenever someone somewhere is up before sunrise on Christmas morning to leave a present under a tree for some child to find later, there will continue to be a Santa Claus.
Baby g is only about 18 months old, but we’ve been Talking About It. I think we’ve decided to try not to emphasize Santa too much, but still have him around–albeit reluctantly. After all, we can’t exactly avoid him, and I don’t want her to turn into a kid who enjoys pricking other kids’ bubbles or who feels left out. But we’re definitely not going to make a big deal out of him either, and try to push other things more, like music, service, love, and the birth of Jesus.
(If you don’t push the other things, Santa will take over. I used to nanny a little boy [whose family, FTR, was sorta Catholic], and when I asked him whose birthday it was, he gleefully said, ‘Santa’s!’)
I don’t remember ever really believing in Santa, or finding out that he wasn’t real. AFAIK, I was always suspicious. It didn’t bother me at all, though. Am I weird?
I wanted to ask the supposedly rational dopers what they’d do after I read this today.
**
I don’t remember when I stopped believing; I assume I did at one time. I’d like to think even if I did ever believe it, I figured out it was a lie on my own. But I just don’t remember.
I believe one should tell the truth, but if I did have kids, I’d probably wimp out and go along with the Big Lie.