Ah, my mistake.
God is Love.
But He hates the fuck out of you if you stick your penis ‘where it don’t belong’ or let another woman go down on you.
Guess those must be them thar mysterious ways He works in.
“Preach it gobear!” says a member of the choir. Haven’t these folks read Matthew 23?
Hmmm. Come to think of it, couldn’t verse 14 apply to certain televangelists? Robert Tilton, old pal, are you out there? 
I heard on NPR this evening that a judge down in Alabama (not our old buddy Roy Moore) has had the 10 Commandments embroidered on his judicial robe. I heard him say there aren’t that many non-Christians in his county and he doubts they’d feel uncomfortable if they had to appear before him. I wonder how he reconciles this with Matthew 6:5-8 in which Jesus says
I’m pretty sure he’s familiar with the bit which follows – it’s the Lord’s Prayer. Does he realize that this Christian, at least, sees him as directly disobeying Christ? I wouldn’t be comfortable appearing in his courtroom, because, with my liberal, feminist, pro-homosexual, pro-acceptance ways, I doubt I’m the right kind of Christian for him, especially since I’m in the habit of refering to my worship services as “Masses”.
The Christ I worship, the Christ who’s responsible for me being Christian and who saved my scrawny neck years ago isn’t a respectable fellow. He’s the one who spoke to outcasts, odd ducks, and hopeless cases like me and gave me hope and a promise of belonging. Christianity in general and the Episcopal Church in particular kept that promise. Even when I had nothing; even when I thought I’d lost everything, they never turned me away. Instead, they only gave me the welcome, the acceptance and the love I needed. It angers me to see some Christians denying those qualities to others, including some here I would gladly call “Brother” (looks pointedly at gobear).
When I was a teenager, I wanted badly to “change the world!” When I was in my 20s, I came the conclusion I couldn’t. When I hit my 30s, it dawned on me that, although I can’t change the entire world (not that I’ve given up trying! ;)), I can at least change small pieces of it. I will not let those who corrupt my Christian faith into one of hatred and exclusion be the sole voice of Christianity. I’m still here; I’m still speaking; and I’m lousy at shutting up! 
CJ
See, now you’re grasping the concept.
The Christians I respect are the ones who are less concerned with being righteous and more concerned with being loving.
Say, is that a mote in your eye?
Once again, and most eloquently, my sister speaks for me!
I will gladly embrace gobear and call him “brother” – and indeed have IRL, to his great embarrassment! – and though it is a failing in me, I cannot bring myself to do the same for the likes of Roy Moore.
Well, but Roy Moore is no hunka hunka burnin’ love, now, is he?
A bumper sticker if I ever saw one.
Yep.
One man, two or three wives, at least as many concubines, and all their children.
What? It’s in the Bible!
And if you’re too busy to read the bible:
I hope gobear won’t consider this as too much of a hijack from his OP, but I am very angry about this.
I fought to get that forum started, for people like the OP of that thread. And what has happened disgusts me. (For the record, it’s a “moderated forum” – meaning something different than “a moderator reads the threads” – in this case, no post goes to open board until a moderator has reviewed and approved it. I urged the OP to visit the church Siege attends (he’s from Pittsburgh) or the MCC there – and my post was rejected as “promoting unChristian behavior.” You can see what the result is from the last post, which is by the OP. :mad:
Siege, Sol, Priam, I ask your prayers that I can get over the anger I feel right now, and do something constructive for this poor guy instead.
Poly, where you at least able to send him a private message or an e-mail?
Please, everyone keep in mind that most modern religions only focus on Christ’s birth and death.
They tend to ignore his preachings. Yet you hear Paul’s rantings a lot.
But not much of Love your neighbor as yourself.
Many Christians will burn burn in hell, if such a thing exists, hotter than the worst sinners.
And having slaves, and making burnt offerings to please God, and stoning women for unnaceptable sexual violations and…
ya know, real moral values
:smack:
Can’t help but wonder what family values Lot had as he ofered up his virgin daughters to a ravenous mob. But hey… if it’s in the Bible it’s a good way to make everybody in America live. Right?
Note: the preceeding text should be taken as, somewhat, hyperbolic. No, not everybody who supports ‘moral values’ is a christian. No, not all christians are fundementalists. Yadda, yadda, yadda. But this is the pit, and I am ranting. So fuck all you felchers of squids who are felching dead goats. Ahem.
Religion is best kept out of church.
Every October, I get together with a group of friends from college. We all went to a church college and we actually see each other a lot throughout the year, despite graduating 20 years ago. But since then, they have all became more conservative in their beliefs. I, OTOH, have become more liberal in my own thoughts and beliefs. Probably because I have traveled more widely than they have and I do not have a family.
The people that own the place we have our October cookout have been inviting a couple from their Sunday School for several years, and there is inevitably a discussion on politics and religion, with me as the token liberal. Which I am sure would make all the real liberals I know laugh their heads off. 
This year, the one of them made a statement I just could not make a reply to. I was too shocked. And then I just did not know how to reply without losing my temper. What did he say? “I think the biggest problem with the country today is all the promotion of tolerance. The Liberals keep pushing it and pushing it just to get their agendas through. We could stop the gays and atheists from destroying the morals of the country if we just stop all this talk about tolerance.”
From a self-described conservative Christian, surrounded by a half-dozen other self-decribed conservative Christians, none of whom had any problem with the statement. I am probably not going back next year.
I have been raised in a conservative christian family and have had to slowly come to accept christianity. The breaking point for me was the thread here called something like “what’s it like to be gaybashed”. After reading about all the persecution that some of our gay dopers have gone through, I decided that All They Need is Love, not judgement.
I had trouble finding it in a search, but if anyone here can find it, they should post a link. It is a very important thread.
A year or so ago my parents got me this book they wanted me to read this book. It was extremely depressing- they seemed wrong, but I sometimes getting the thought that “maybe homosexuality isn’t so right”. That was very depressing. The writing was also really bad, but my mind isn’t coherent enough to post a humorous example.
Anyway, sometimes I have the problem with feeling “unsafe” as a pro-gay quasi-liberal. I feel like I’m stepping out of something where I’m safe and have a good relationship with God. It gets frustrating and a little scary because my mind and my inner feelings don’t go together and I wonder if I’m actually wrong. It is very depressing. That may be why so many christians are anti-gay… it’s the more comfortable thing to do.
That said, I will stand with the gay folk. Hopefully my thoughts and feelings will eventually become reconciled.
I thought I’d post the lyrics to Morrissey’s song “I Have Forgiven Jesus”. I could be wrong, but the song speaks to me about this type of thing. It’s not hard to figure out why. The song is very powerful.
http://www.morrisseymusic.com/lyrics/Ihave_lyrics.txt
I made the mistake of visiting the thread Polycarp linked to. Would someone please explain to me how hounding someone about his sexuality to the point where he becomes suicidal is Christian? As most of you know, I battled severe depression for years. I was utterly convinced I was worthless, ugly, hopeless, incompetent, and undeserving of anything good. With the help of God, very good friends, and even better therapy, I was able to see that wasn’t true. When I was a teenager in the days when I couldn’t walk down a hallway without being insulted, there was a boy who was of the few people who’d be friends with me. You see, to befriend me was to bring on the same kind of treatment I got. Years later, he told me he was gay. No matter what I hear from my more conservative brother and sisters in Christ, no matter how much they tell me homosexuals are out to destroy the nation, I cannot and will not believe this old friend of mine is less moral than the kids who made my life a living hell.
By the way, here’s a link to the thread What Is Gaybashing Like? It’s not easy reading.
Oh, and Talon Karrde I’m used to defying the crowd and, thanks to a profound religious experience 12 years ago when literally nothing else was getting through to me, I’ve got pretty solid faith. My e-mail address is in my profile. Lean on me if you need to. I’ve certainly leaned on enough people in my time.
CJ, who’s still waging the Siege (or at least my employer is ;))
Amen to that. One can’t help but think of Junius Brutus.
One also can’t help but think that you’re a poorly educated wanker.
You’ll note that by saying “Junius Brutus”, you haven’t added anything beyond simply saying “Brutus”. Was there one of the above that you particularly couldn’t help but think of?