I seem to have missed putting in some words; what I meant to say was:
If you are not aware that most other religions do not classify “accepting Jesus Christ as one’s personal Saviour” as a distinct one-time deliberate event in one’s spiritual life, and that most religions do not believe that the ONLY road to salvation and heaven is by making a conscience decision to accept Jesus as one’s Saviour, then you might want to read up on comparative religion. It might be very illuminating to you.
I think it’s unfortunate that everyone seems to have jumped all over Idle’s back over a term that has great importance to many (though obviously not all) Christians, including me. The fact is, I’d be willing to bet that most Christian churches have no problem with using the term Savior to describe Jesus Christ - I refuse to argue about the spelling; spell it however you want - but the minute someone comes up with “saved”, people have a tendency to freak out. Savior. Saved. Savior. Saved. Makes sense, right?
The fact is, the term “saved” is part of a religious vocabulary that means a whole lot to me, but it does not define my faith - it only describes my personal take on it. Quibbling about details is silly and rather offensive. Yes, fundies have a tendency to use it a LOT, which is unfortunate for the rest of us. But I refuse to give up/apologize for the language that best describes my feelings about my relationship with Christ.
A couple of thoughts, Okaybear:
First, “saved” to describe “having entered into a personal relationship with Jesus Christ” is a pretty meaningful phrase. But it draws a line Jesus didn’t between the “saved” and the “unsaved” – because we’re temporal, finite people looking at it from the perspective of the present, one point in time. Giovanni “Frenchy” Bernardone was a young 12th Century playboy and dandy with aspirations to be a great warrior, hardly the stuff of great sanctity, by anybody’s standards then or now. But God had other plans for him.
Second, there’s a tendency on the part of some “saved” Christians to make it an ego trip – “Chevy Chase” Christians, as in, “I’m saved, and you’re not!” I recently saw a post from a quite devout Baptist woman on another board, to the effect that she didn’t hate Catholics; in fact, she was praying daily that the Pope would accept Jesus before he died! :rolleyes: I doubt I have to say how wrong that sort of attitude is. But the fact that there are a fair proportion of the self-designated-as-saved out there that adopt it leaves an unsavory taste in the mouth of others – and for that reason, care in using the term, if at all, outside your own faith community is appropriate.
Third, I’d be honored if you and Idle Thoughts might be willing to post your perspective in my Saved? thread in Great Debates.
Fourth, can you grasp how people like Siege, who are as firmly committed to Christ and to following him as yourself or me, but have not had a conversion experience in the traditional sense (though Siege’s hospital experience counts in my mind), can see this sort of terminology as divisive and casting aspersions on them? And if you can, what is your Christian duty towards them?
No.
In answer to the origianl question.
Slight hijack, I wonder how many spin off threads is the record for one topic. As I can see, there is a topic spinoff about this topic in: Great Debates, The BBQ Pit, and About This Message Board.
Well, I was raised Roman Catholic. Went off to college, stopped going to church for the next…decade or so.
Ended up in Atlanta and went to a non-denominational friend. Ended up getting “saved” and being a hard-core fundamentalist for a while (as in, just about took the Left Behind books as gospel and was very convinced that my RC family was going to hell, in a Jack Chick kind of way). Kept getting drawn back to the Catholic church. Left the non-denominational church, went back to RC as a “re-vert”.
Moved again, couldn’t find a parish that I liked. Debated the Episcopalian church for a while, but only went once.
Ended up in Ohio, and still not attending church. I’ve been doing a lot of reading lately about Wicca. So…the answer to the question, technically, is yes, but with a big BUT… attached to that.
Absolutely, I don’t disagree. But as Idle Thoughts already explained, her use of the term came from her own experience in a specific church community, and perhaps (though I certainly do not wish to speak for Idle) this is a language that some of us wish to use in our conversations about religion, even outside our denominational bubble. There was no “witnessing” in the OP, nor was there any mention of “unsaved” persons. I simply think that the reaction over the use of the term “saved” was a little defensive where it needn’t have been.
Perhaps tommorow, I have to go to church in the morning, and I’m beat. 
I can grasp it, it just saddens me that the way I choose to speak about my relationship with Christ has also been used in a divisive way. My salvation (what I believe it to be) did not come about as a thunderbolt from the sky, or anything quite as dramatic as that. I use the term “saved” to describe an assurance that I will meet my Creator someday. I suppose that’s why it’s past tense - I believe that whatever needed to happen for me to have that assurance has already happened.
I will concede that not every Christian uses this vocabulary, and therefore its use may seem exclusionary to some. My Christian duty should not be to give up a language that I cherish dearly, however, but instead to listen to other vocabularies/stories/languages **and ** broaden my own, without elevating one over the other.
I really don’t see a possibility of this going back on track as an actual poll, so I’m moving this to Great Debates.
Idle Thoughts, I’d like to apologize to you. I think I misunderstood your intention. I gather you were simply looking for people who had had a similar religious experience to yours and I hijacked it into a discussion of the word “Saved” because of my own issues. I also let myself get a bit shirty. I apologize.
I’m not sure whether I’m saved by your standards or not. On one hand, I can’t point to a particular moment and say, “At this time, I became a Christian.” On the other hand, I have an experience with God which certainly saved my life and soul and, a year later, I formally rededicated my life to Christ. The thing is, part of that profound experience with God – oh heck, let’s call it what it is. That same miracle that saved my life Worked, in part because of the same old words of the Eucharist (I think you call it “the Lord’s Table”) service I’d grown up listening to. The power of the words I’d sat through a thousand times, sometimes bored, sometimes not paying any attention at all, but always present, reached me when nothing else could. My grounding in Episcopal faith and ritual was an essential part of the miracle which is the closest this stumbling Episcopalian can come to the Baptist definition of Saved. That’s one of the reasons I can’t renounce my life until that point and say “I wasn’t a Christian” before then. If you like, e-mail me and I’ll tell you the story sometime.
Again, please accept my apologies.
Respectfully,
CJ
Sorry that I am so late.
Nope, but I was raised Presbyterian, and made an A in Catholic Confirmation class in junior high.
Man, you guys can split hairs.
Polycarp: Quick!! Before my free trial membership expires: Are you male or female? I have enjoyed reading your posts during the last week or so; however, one’s options are limited as a “guest” here and I cannot read your profile.
Just curious, of course. 
If the answer is obvious, I missed it… :smack:
Male – happily married, for 30 years come April. The name has nothing to do with “Polly” – it’s after my patron saint, Polycarp of Smyrna (died 156 AD). I started using it as an Internet handle back in 1989, when I was casting about for something unique that described me rather than “User590603” or something of that ilk.
THanks for answering…I always like to know if I’m reading the thoughts of a male or a female.
1989…wow. I didn’t even know what message boards were until, well, just a few years ago. :rolleyes:
I was following you until you said the above. If you are Catholic, at least in general terms, and live a good life, then why do you believe that you are automatically going to hell?
Ah, Poly says that to all the newbies.
His name really reflects the fact that he has an extensive collection of goldfish in the pond in his backyard.
(Or not).
Raised Catholic, now soft atheist, and hard agnostic about life after death.
In other words, most definitely not.
I have to say that the questions “have you accepted Jesus as your savior” and “have you been saved” have always rubbed me the wrong way. I believe a more appropriate or clearer question would be “do you believe in God” or even “are you a christian?” if that is what you trying to find out.
I think that there are several problems with your questions. One is what exactly are you being saved from or what is your definition of being saved? To many people saved means that you are going to heaven, which I find to be an egotistical assumption for someone to make about themself and absolutely unprovable. As polycarp says elsewhere, only God would know this answer. If you are asking who believes in God, it also should be remembered that jews and muslims as well as many others that don’t believe in Jesus as christians do. How would they answer this question? It seems likely they would have to answer no, but then the implication is that they are not going to be “saved” aka go to a happy afterlife/heaven.
This is where another big part of my problem with “accepting Jesus as your savior” To me it come across as far more than simply christianity or belief in God, but almost a more exclusive Jesus club or Jesus worship of some kind that may exclude many christians, as well as all jews and muslims.
I say these things not to attack your beliefs, but to demonstrate why many may have a difficult time with this question, even if they are not atheists.
I would be interested to hear your definition of being saved and accepting Jesus as your savior.
I think that a good question to all is what does being saved or being saved by jesus mean?
I’m somewhere between Jewish and agnostic.
What’s the big deal with “being saved”? Why can’t Jesus, assuming he exists, respect that I just want to live my own damn life.
This thread reminds me of a great T-shirt idea I once heard mentioned:
Front: Jesus saves…
Back: …a bunch of money on His car insurance with Geico.
My favorite real T-shirt in the same vein is this:
WWJD
for a Klondike bar?
Oh, and by now you can probably guess what my answer to the original question is, right?
My favorite real T-shirt in the same vein is this:
WWJD
for a Klondike bar?
Oh, and by now you can probably guess what my answer to the original question is, right?
[/QUOTE]
I know a few people who would love that shirt. After the election, my friend’s brother went out and had a t-shirt made reading: I hate Christians.
This made me chuckle, and yet, I am a Christian.