Having your kids believing in Santa or Not.

Great Debates
1

Merry Xmas, Happy new year y’all,

My wife is expecting and I had a lot of talking with the family lately on different matters, one being having your kids believing in Santa or not.

For me, my Mom always told me it was a nice story, but just a story nonetheless. Which pleased a lot my teacher when she tried the Santa Claus theme in the class, and I would raise my hand and tell everybody it was crap :smiley: Well, my Mom wanted all the credit for the gifts : “Your dad and I who love you are buying them, so I want you to know where they coming from” was the idea.

Coming back to the holyday chat, I was wondering : what is the impact of the unreality of Santa on kids? Are their psychology affected? Are the kid trust in his parents destroyed?

I know I’ll tell the truth to my kids, but it’s just to know I’m doing the rigth thing and shut up my cousin :stuck_out_tongue:

** Santa
Sansta ** - Non believer

2

An online acquaintance of mine expresses horror at the idea of ‘lying to your children about the Santa myth’ - I think she is overreacting; as far as I can tell, the anti-Santa arguments break down as follows:

  1. We shouldn’t be filling the heads of our children with stories of mythical/imaginary beings of any kind. This argument is most often used by atheists/skeptics.

  2. When they find out that Santa isn’t real, they will lose their belief in [insert name of religious figure]. This argument is most often used by devout theists.

Personally, I don’t see the harm - I don’t think argument 1 carries much weight unless those it are going to discontinue the use of children’s storybooks containing talking waistcoated rabbits.

Likewise, I don’t think argument 2 carries much weight unless those using it are happy to demote their deity(/ies) to the status of the fat guy in the red suit.

The exercise of imagination is (IMO) an extremely important part of childhood mental development; fairy tales and fantastical imaginary beings are quite normal and healthy.

Anecdote: My daughter, when she was very small, had an imaginary friend that lived down the plughole in the bathroom - she would talk quite animatedly about his escapades, his thoughts, feelings, desires etc (some of which was a useful indicator to her own internal states) - a year or two later, she came to her senses and would quickly put down any conversation in which I tried to pretend the imaginary friend was there, but then after that phase, she is now quite happy to pretend that he is there and have quite detailed conversations about him - she is completely aware that it is all make-believe.

Creating fantasies about the everyday life of her friend down the plughole has I believe, in many ways, helped her to perceive that other people exist and have their own thoughts, hopes and desires.

3

We had a discussion about this on my parenting list. There were a number of views, but the people who promoted Santa generally expressed two reasons: (a) they enjoyed it as a kid (and furthermore, didn’t feel “betrayed” or humiliated when they learned it wasn’t true) and/or because (b) their child’s schoolmates and friends spread the word, and they didn’t want to be the parents who “ruined it” when their kid blabbed the truth.

However, a number of them limited Santa’s role. They told their kids that he didn’t bring ALL presents. Family members buy each other most gifts to show their love, and Santa brings just one special gift.

Other parents said that they handled most Santa-related questions by turning the questions back into a “Well, what do YOU think?” and that their kids generally started doubting Santa, but were game enough about keeping their doubts from their little friends. Of course that’s gotta be with older kids (my four-year-old probably wouldn’t keep quiet).

4

Seeing you say this makes me wonder; is it generally the case that parents doing the ‘Santa’ thing pass off all of their gifts to their children as being of North Pole origin?

It hadn’t really crossed my mind that anyone would do this; in my family, Father Christmas provided a stocking-full of gifts and goodies by the hearth (or at the end of the child’s bed) and all the other gifts were labelled as being from whoever provided them. I had naively assumed that this was the general state of affairs.

5

We split presents between Santa and ourselves. Basically, the beakdown is that the stuff like clothes, books, etc. are from us. The toys are from Santa. I have 5 and 2 yo boys.

I don’t much like perpetuating the myth, but it’s for the kids. They enjoy it, fantasy is a big part of their development, and it’ll all work out eventually. It always does.

6

When I was a kid the stuff in the sock was from Santa and everything else was from whom ever was on the from tag.

7

Well, ** Mangetout **, I am neither in the atheist nor in the devout theist category., maybe somewhere inbetween. Still, I got my doubts, and I cannot believe that I cannot find any real psychological study online on the subject. All I could find is some samples like:

According to Tom Nicholson, a professor at the School of Education at the University of Auckland in New Zealand, 85 percent of 4-year-old kids believe in Santa and 65 percent of 6-year-olds believe. But as kids develop their ability to reason, they start to wonder whether it’s possible for one man in a reindeer-powered sleigh to visit every home in the world in just one night, how exactly said reindeer can fly and why all the mall Santas look so different. Nicholson writes that only 25 percent of 8-year-olds believe in Santa.

In a recent CNN.com interview, Helen Egger, a child psychologist at the Department of Child and Adolescent Psychology at Duke University, suggested that there is no right time to tell your kids that Santa is a myth and not a reality. Instead, parents should wait for kids to signal them that they’re ready to give up the belief. Questions about Santa-logistics are an invitation to ask kids what they think and let them draw their own conclusions.

Once kids know that Santa Claus lives not at the North Pole but in our hearts, Egger says it’s time to help them feel the spirit of the myth. “Tell your child that the rituals associated with Santa are just one way of expressing the joy of giving and your love for them.”

…or www.claus.com :slight_smile: …

Well, no good solid scientific study on the subject so far… Everything turns around “once your kid believes in Santa, how to deal with it”
(another ex. : http://www.cnn.com/1999/HEALTH/children/12/14/santa.myth.wmd/)
and not ** “is it good to believe in Santa?” **

Is it because all the scientists believe in Santa? Wow. that’s news :wink:

8

Yeah, but the difference is, Santa Claus isn’t their fantasy and isn’t presented as a fantasy. A kiddo making an elaborate fantasy about faries at the bottom of the garden, or a giant anteater she has tea parties with, is exercising her imagination. But Santa Claus is presented as a fact by the adults in a child’s life, and elaborate measures are taken to convince her of his being a fact. Big difference.

I doubt anyone is psychologically harmed by being decieved about the reality of Santa Claus. But I don’t want to lie to my kids–about anything. I want to be sure that I give them the correct information about the world, to the best of my ability. And I want them to know that when I tell them something, it’s the truth as far as I’m able to manage it. The supposed “magic” of Santa Claus is really playing on the child’s trust. “Wow, isn’t that cute, he’ll believe anything I tell him!” Well, right, that’s why, IMHO, it’s important to tell him the truth. And frankly, if you need to lie about the world for it to be magical and wonderful, well, what does that say about the real world? In my view, the real world is magical enough, and I don’t find it amusing to give them inaccurate information just because it’s “cute” or because everyone else is doing it.

9

If there was no widely-held Santa myth, then I think it might be a little bizarre to introduce one, but because there is, it becomes a little strange to take any great steps against it.

My daughter told me this year that she knows Father Christmas isn’t real (I suspect that the realisation came quite a bit earlier than the admission), however, she still had fun leaving a pie and a drink out for him to enjoy - she even gave me a michevous glance and delared that he would probably best like to drink a can of lager, knowing full well that it would be my choice.

I just think that people, especially those who pride themselves on their critical thinking skills, can get a little ‘up themselves’ at times and forget that make-believe is something that kids really enjoy - I regularly present my children with silly, imaginary questions (i.e. “What would it be like if people had wings?” and the like) - it stimulates them to think and it would break my heart if, with a completely straight face, they simply and seriously replied “Please provide peer-reviewed references supporting the existence of winged humans”.

10

General Questions is for questions with factual answers. Great Debates is our forum for debates.

Off to Great Debates.

DrMatrix - GQ Moderator

11

I was about to post almost the exact same thing as Bren_Cameron. Thanks for taking the words right out of my mouth! Hehe.

12

My kids don’t believe in Santa Claus and their psyche has held up just fine, thank you. :smiley:

Zev Steinhardt

13

Maybe it is different outside of my little corner of the world, but I’m not really aware of any elaborate measures being taken - the Father Christmas thing seems to have a life of its own - it seems to be a myth that persists by the inertia of the wonder and imagination of the children believing it. I certainly don’t see it as some big conspiracy to present a deliberately inaccurate view of the world - rather an acceptance that they are having great fun at the momentary expense of hard, cold fact.

But then I don’t remember any negative connotations to my finding out that it was all made up - It was something I enjoyed while it lasted - I don’t feel that I was robbed of any important truths.

14

I never lied to my children about anything, including the fairly tale of santa.

Lots of other mothers complained at school because my children knew the truth and their children did not - but other than that it worked wonderfully. Nothing builds total complete trust in a parent if she never ever lies to her children about anything.

There will be times when your children may disagree with you from time to time about different things, but they will never ever doubt your sincerity and complete honesty about anything, even into adulthood, and will always seek your true honest advice as they grow up.

15

I put Santa with all other fairy tales. We haven’t straight out told DangerGirl that Santa Claus is real (and we won’t), but we do play along with her affection for him. She is 3 and knows (on her own) that all the Santas she meets are ‘pretend Santas.’ I expect that as she gets older, we’ll be playing a game we both know is pretend, just as we will with other stories and fairy tales.

I can’t remember ever really believing myself–I do recall being pretty suspicious about it at age 4. My parents never made any effort to convince us about the reality of Santa, either.

I have a hard time worrying about whether discovering the reality of Santa will turn DangerGirl into an atheist. She doesn’t belong to a huge organization devoted entirely to worshipping and learning about Santa, and her parents don’t have shelves of books about Santa, and no one tells her stories from ancient Santa scriptures every week. Neither does she have daily family prayer to Santa.

16

Just the other day I asked my 3 kids - 16, 14, 12 - about whether they were glad they believed in Santa. All 3 said Santa, the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy, and the leprechauns who visited our house on St Pat’s were a lot of fun. They are glad they were part of their early childhood, and intended to do the same when and if they had kids.

They did not consider our allowing them to believe in Santa to have been lying. I generally consider myself to be extremely truthful with my kids. And all 3 are nontheists.

I think there is a distinction between participating in harmless makebelieve and lying to your kids, tho I am not sure I care to parse that distinction out sufficiently to withstand rigorous debate.

All I can say is this is but one of the many decisions you have to make as a parent. Whatever you decide, I think it best to try to do it in a way that does not adversely affect other families’ choices. For the OP, I think your parents should have clearly instructed you to keep your views to yourself in class. Same way I tell my kids it would be - at the least - bad manners to go around telling their friends they are stupid for praying to a mythical sky pixie. Same way it is impolite for folks to tell my kids they are going to hell if they do not accept Jesus.

For those who argue for 100% truth - do your kids make a wish when they blow out birthday candles? Do you allow them to play make-believe without clearly spelling out disclaimers? Do you prohibit them from having an imaginary friend? Just trying to suggest that attempting to be 100% truthful may be a rigorous task. But if that is your choice - knock yourself out.

Different people are able to have different rules in their homes, and any particular rule does not necessarily make them better or worse.

In my opinion, the brief period that kids believe in Santa and other magic is a lot of fun for both the kids and the parents. And I am not sure of any harm that would result. I suspect if any kid claims significant lasting harm from Santa belief, there are other major factors involved. I think you would be unnecessarily depriving yourself and your kids of some fun that only is available for a brief time. But that is just my opinion.

17

My parents didn’t teach me that Santa Claus was real. I don’t recall thinking about it when I was little. After all, I never got any presents from him, and never sat on his lap at the mall (or wanted to). I don’t recall bursting anyone’s bubble, though I suppose I could have. Same sort of deal with the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

Years later I asked my mother why she didn’t have us believe in Santa, and she said it’s because she’d rather have us know that our gifts came from friends and family who love us very much than some random white guy in a suit. Makes sense to me.

For that reason, and because I don’t want to lie my children (should I have them), I don’t plan to tell my kids to believe in Santa Claus.

18

Many parents I’ve known can become quite exercised at the thought of their children possibly being exposed to the idea that Santa isn’t real. It’s hard to describe the look of terror in my husband’s brother in law’s face when I said something very minor and very offhand–and not in the hearing of his kids-- that might imply Santa didn’t actually exist, and his urgent request that I say nothing more along those lines, ever, in case his kids might possibly overhear. I think Santa/Father Christmas is a lovely idea, and a fine image to pretend about, play games about, and consider the sort of personification of Christmas gift giving. But that’s not pretend, when you feel you have to censor any reference to the possibility that it’s not real, when you actually fear that your kids might “find out.” In that kind of context, all the “pretend” things that should be fun play–leaving out cookies, etc–become measures to maintain the falsehood, not part of a game.

That story about the six year old who was “devastated” by a teacher who said Santa wasn’t real, and whose parents were distressed enough to actually take it to the papers, is the sort of thing I’m talking about. If it had all been a lovely pretend game, there would be no devastation or disappointment–why should there be? But it’s not pretend for such kids, it’s not presented as pretend, it’s not treated as pretend. I’m not trying to say that every fantasy has to be cited and backed up and whatnot, just that play and pretend should be treated as play and pretend. If I tell my daughter that the giant anteater she talks with every day isn’t real, she doesn’t get upset or disappointed. She either says, “No, of course not, Anty is just pretend.” Or else she says, “Silly Mom, of course he’s real, he’s drinking your tea right now.” Both acknowledge that it’s a game, and the game continues unharmed–five minutes after I declare him a figment and paidhi-girl agrees with me, Anty will be sitting in the dining room playing with My Little Ponies. This isn’t the reaction some parents become so anxious about when contemplating kids finding out Santa isn’t real. If it were just another case of pretend, why would there even be an article like the one linked to above on how to deal with your kids finding out/telling your kids? My kids (hell, the whole family) have a very active and intense fantasy/pretend dimension to their lives–but when it comes down to it, when they want to or need to, we can always draw the line between what’s real and what’s pretend. I don’t see that in some of the folks who tell their kids Santa is real. I do see a lot of anxiety that finding out will ruin things for them.

I agree that different households have different rules and choices, and different choices don’t mean anyone is a bad parent. And I seriously doubt anyone has actually been harmed by it. It’s not something that’s going to cause the sun to explode or anything. It’s more a question of a parent’s philosophy about certain things, and when I sat down to think it out, that’s the conclusion I came to.

As far as my kids keeping their mouths shut, I go back and forth on it. If I taught my kids that God didn’t exist, and some classmate said he did, should my kid pretend to agree so as not to rock the boat? Sure, the Santa thing isn’t anywhere near religion, but from the reaction of some (not all) parents, you’d think it was. Should I teach my kids to just agree in public with the majority view just to make everyone around them happy?

On the other hand, I have no desire to send my kids around lecturing their schoolmates about what they ought to believe at every opportunity. It came up for the first time this year, after school was out for the holidays, and I explained about St. Nicholas, and that some families liked to play a pretend game about Santa and it wouldn’t be nice to interfere with their pretend.

But for some families–the ones that would be most worried about my daughter “ruining it,” it’s not just pretend. Otherwise, no matter who heard what, it wouldn’t be ruined. It’s only ruined if it’s presented as something real and “finding out” means finding out it’s only pretend.

19

Well, I saw them sitting there and they looked so good… :wink:

20

That some families may “overdo” Santa, doesn’t mean you need to. Heck, there are folk who tape a ballgame, and then act like someone murdered them if they happen to innocently mention the score.

Lots of people believe in a deity of their choosing, while criticizing fundamentalists or folks who choose a different deity.

Yes, the real world is wonderful. And we have exposed our kids to the wonders of science and nature since before they could talk or comprehend many of the concepts.

As I said, my kids claim to have enjoyed believing in Santa. So why should I think I erred on this matter? (Which, as far as childrearing goes, is pretty damned minor!)

Moreover, a reasonable loving parent does not need to weave a complicated web of lies to support a kid’s belief in Santa. If the kid asks “Is Santa real?” You can always respond, “What do you think?” And in my experience, most kids will take it from there. Same response for fairies, etc.

And then the day will come when you ask, “What do you think?” and the kid will say, “I don’t think so.” A reasonable parent will take that as a sign to take Christmass to a different level.