I mean, they did try to burn Kate alive (and her apartment, and by extension, everyone else who lived in her apartment building) in the first episode. And they’re definitely going to kill Clint if they find out he was the original Ronin. Her reaction to maybe ending a couple dudes might have been a bit cavalier, but she’s still pretty far away from being the bad guy here.
It would be refreshing to see a nascent hero have a pragmatic attitude like that. “They were shooting at us. It was an accident but I’m not gonna lose any sleep. I could have killed them all easily given the right arrows”
Edit: That said…this ep really hammers home how when you take a life, you’re not just killing someone who ‘deserves it’. You’re taking away someone’s father or son or mother or daughter.
Yeah, that’s a version of Batman’s “code against killing” that I always found compelling - he doesn’t want anyone else to become an orphan.
It’s true, at the least they definitely didn’t seem concerned that they might burn her alive. I thought the Molotov cocktails were more to flush her out than to kill her directly, but that may well be a distinction without a difference. And at that point, they think she’s Ronin.
That definitely seems to be true. But from their perspective, they’re just taking revenge on the guy who slaughtered half their crew.
Again, though, in that specific scene, the TSM are explicitly trying not to kill them (although they’re pretty cavalier themselves about shooting wildly at them). And at that point, the TSM are more comic relief than actual threats. Clint intentionally lets himself get jumped, captured, and held at gunpoint by them, and he’s nonchalent about the whole thing because he perceives so little threat from them. It just seems like (literal) overkill for Kate to blow some of them up and burn them to death. MCU heroes do kill in battle, but it still felt (to me) like a disproportionate response, and oddly dark and violent given the tone of the rest of the show.
And indeed, as @Pavelb1 points out, a major plot element of the series is that what to Clint was just a random mid-level gang boss was to Maya a deeply loving and caring father and her only real family, and Clint is obviously very uncomfortable, even remorseful, about his actions as Ronin.
I like that this is a fairly fun, low-stakes series. I like that they’re mixing the fun action with some actual half-way realistic depictions of the trauma and costs of violence. But both of those elements seem undercut by Kate just off-handedly killing people.
If they’re dead, of course. We never see the bodies, so by comic book logic, they might have actually survived that fiery crash with a few cosmetic injuries (Black Widow survived worse in her movie)…
This is what I was trying to get at before. I like the comedy so far (and in the general MCU) but there are some times where I find the tonal shift off-putting. Like we go from Ronin killing her father in front of her, over to a jokey bit about concert tickets, and back to a threat about ripping out throats. Marvel usually does pretty well at balancing, but it’s a fine line to walk.
The episode was great. The car chase was an excellent action scene. I sometimes get a bit distracted by the one-shot action scenes, but this one I liked. We were comparing this scene to the one-shot chase scene from Loki, and all agreed that this Hawkeye one worked much better.
Speculation: Echo will see Clint and Swordsman fighting, will sign to her buddy, “Thats Ronin!! Thats him!! He killed my father!”
Cut to black, next ep we find out it was Swordsman she was referring to.
Our idea of the Avengers is different than people “in universe.” To us, it’s a team from the first film. Inside the MCU, it’s a group of disparate elements that coalesce around extinction-level threats. People know some are dead or inactive, but Avenger also seems to include a crap-ton of people almost no one’s heard of that just show up out of the blue. No one knew Captain Marvel was an Avenger, or the Wasp, and there are years between Thor or Hulk sightings.
I’d say most people still think there’s an Avengers team, though they’re vague on the details. If something big happens and a group shows up with a familiar face or two in the mix, they’ll think “Oh. Must be the Avengers.”
“Hello. My name is Maya Lopez. You killed my father. Prepare to die.”
I did note that we didn’t see who was in the Ronin suit at the time her father was stabbed. Seems unlikely that it would be the Swordsman, given that he didn’t have the suit or sword at that time and that they turned up at the auction after being retrieved from the Avengers compound, but I suppose he could have made a similar suit himself.
Well I was thinking that Swordman maybe taught Clint and that Swordsman was Ronin at first…but that kinda doesn’t make sense unless Swordsman was dusted and Clint just took up the role…and it takes away the pathos of Clint ending Echo’s fathers life. But we’ll see.
Heh. I just realized that Clint is getting free meals, but Falcon cant get a loan.*
*Still think that was dumb and ham-fisted and didn’t make a bit of sense. Falcon could make that money in a week just doing speaking fees or selling autographs.
I also thought that was dumb – Stark could have easily made Falcon and the other non-wealthy Avengers “consultants” for his company and put them on his payroll with a decent salary without making a dent in his finances.
Sure, Stark could do that - and probably did. But I suspect Sam got taken off the Stark Industries payroll about the time Tony Stark had him incarcerated for siding with Captain America during Civil War. After that, he spent some time as a fugitive, got disintegrated, and then Tony Stark died. There’s like a five minute window when he would plausibly have been on the Stark payroll, and even if he’d been getting paid like a rock star, the seven year period after where he’s either a wanted fugitive or actually dead probably ate up most of his assets.
It’s a good misdirect because as we know Jack HAS the Ronin sword at this point. Echo sees them fighting. Assumes mustache man is Ronin and goes after him–Clint has to come clean at that point.
I’m digging Tony Dalton as Jack Duquesne, but I keep thinking he’s Paul F. Thompkins, and then get disappointed when I remember he’s not.
Well, except Tony Stark isn’t technically in charge of Stark Industries any more, and it didn’t stop existing when he died. Sam couldn’t call Tony, no, but the idea that - after literally saving the universe alongside her late husband - he couldn’t call on Pepper for help is definitely dopey.
Good point, I forgot about that.
Or…I don’t know…the Ruler of Wakanda to cosign a loan.
The showrunners wanted to make a statement? Fine. Go after the big picture and not some bank loan officer whose hands are tied. Go after the govt. Say they seized the assets of every single person who was dusted and until some new laws are passed, no one who was dusted can get a loan. And no one who was dusted can cosign…including the ruler of Wakanda.
I dunno. Apologies for derailing the great Hawkeye mini-series thread.
Could he, though? It’s not like he has any sort of personal relationship with Pepper - I think the only canonical time they’re on screen together is Tony’s funeral. He probably doesn’t have a way to easily contact her directly, and working his way through Stark Industries’ bureaucracy until he meets to woman at the top is probably going to work about as well as the bank loan scene, former Avenger or not. And even if he could, would he? Sam doesn’t strike me as the sort of guy who’d go around asking for handouts, or be willing to accept a paycheck for a job where he’s not actually doing anything.
A stipend from Stark actually was a minor plot point in the old Avengers comics. In 1981 dollars it was $1000/ week which was enough to thrill the broke Tigra and tempt the perennially cash-poor Peter Parker/Spiderman to try and join.
When is the next episode? I’m already seeing stuff online for ep 4?
It’s every Wednesday. Nobody knows what’s going to happen, Marvel have managed to tamp down leaks quite well, so whatever you’re seeing is either speculation or trailer footage.