Help! I am about to be sucked into an argument about adverse covid vaccine reactions

Someone posted in a different chat site “Has no one else watched he numerous videos of people with seizures of dying after receiving the vaccine, sometimes with the second shot?” They then posted a link … never mind, it was completely wrong and I called them on it.

I suspect that I’m going to be sucked into an argument about this. And although “You can’t logically argue someone out of a position…”, it might help other readers of the site if I can cite authoritative information about the number of adverse covid vaccine reactions. Can someone please point me to good information?

“What’s the sense of wrestling with a pig? You both get all over muddy…and the pig likes it.”


Tell them it’s not true, I guess. I very much doubt someone can produce a death video.

Both my wife and I had a sore arm for about a day. My wife said she “felt a tiny bit woozy”.

I personally dislike being sucked in and just wouldn’t do it.

However, here are some reasonable ideas:

Seven ways to talk to anti-vaxxers (that might actually change their minds)

It’s a bad lonely way to die. Maybe hospitals are making some progress with that – I hope they are. But this certainly is a disease where there are some negative impacts to share.

My link talks about making the refusers feel respected. The link doesn’t use the word flattery, but may imply it.

Did you ever read How to Win Friends and Influence People? My memory is that flattery is the number one technique. I’m not saying I’m any good at practicing it myself. The best I can do may be to hold back on insults.

If you feel crap afterward, and I know someone who got bad symptoms, it’s proof your immune system is having a strong response. So it’s working!

She’s a healthcare worker who has posted every bit of her experience on Facebook so people will know, even if you’ve got worse side effects, youDON’T have Covid, and that it’s a good thing, and proof that it’s working, etc. I’ve been getting an education, and am glad to see everything, she went through and glad all was resolved in a two day period.

Apparently it’s a thing healthcare workers are being encouraged do, to dispel misinformation, I suppose.

I will keep an eye on this thread. I and my 15 y.o. son are going to get the vaccine when it’s available to us, but my wife doesn’t want it and our 18 y.o. son is on the fence.

My wife is not an anti-vaxxer (and both our kids got all their proper vaccinations). She just feels like the approval process was too rushed, and thinks people who get the vaccine will eventually grow a third arm or something down the road. Any arguments I can get to help talk her into getting the vaccine will be welcome.

Well, if everybody else grows a third arm, only having two would put her at a serious disadvantage!

Now that’s the kind of pro-vaccine argument I’m looking for :roll_eyes:

It’s a hard fear to bust if given any amount of time for “eventually”. I’ve been telling people who are worried to watch reports from Israel. They are doing probably one of the most highly monitored mass rollout of a vaccine in history.

The entire world, in an unprecedented fashion, shared every single breakthrough they made, with each other. To fight a pandemic that will kill millions. This vaccine came so fast because civilization was able to finally look past profit motives, to get a vaccine to humanity in record time. We live in an internet age when a tiny breakthrough in Australia can push forward research in Holland, etc, etc.

Only to be faced with an affected ignorance about, ‘well, but they made it so quickly, I’m suspicious!’ Minimal critical thinking skills are needed to comprehend why this vaccine came so quickly. And a titch of research will reveal exactly how careful the trials were and that they’ve been thoroughly peer reviewed.

Countries should consider offering people the vaccine exactly once. Take it or not. See where people stand then.

(If I lived in the US I’d be afraid my health insurance wouldn’t pay if I did not get the jab. Don’t they use any excuse to exclude people? And once you had it, wouldn’t that be a preexisting condition?)

We live with universal healthcare, and I think people here should have to pay (Some large portion of) hospital costs if they refuse the vaccine!

The Moderna, Pfizer, AstraZeneca, and J&J vaccine trials used sufficiently large populations and went through the standard three phase safety and efficacy trials. The only part that was ‘rushed’ was that the efficacy trials were not extended to assess long term efficacy, e.g. the ability to develop a really durable immune response that will last for years or decades. Given the urgency to make working vaccines available and the higher-than-expected rate of mutation that has resulted in more infectious variants, that was clearly the correct decision.

The monitoring of vaccinated populations will give us yet larger populations to be able to quantify the incidence of adverse reactions (which are an issue with any vaccine or medication) and will give a better idea of the persistence of inoculation and how well it protects against new variants. Given the infrastructure that has been set up to produce new vaccines and the ability to fine tune the genomic material in the vaccine, it should be possible to make modified or new vaccines to address a new actual strain even quicker than the original vaccine developments.


You’re part of the problem, you know. This aggressive adversarial approach is fun for political cheerleading but could you leave it out of public health discussions? Thanks.

Agreement with the first part of your post; however, this restricting the vaccine to one chance not good policy, not only because comprehensive vaccination is a societal benefit (e.g. preventing reservoirs for the pathogen to replicate and mutate as much as possible) but also because some of the skepticism regarding vaccination is from populations who have good reason to doubt the motives of government health programs that have often ignored them or even used them as test subjects.

What should be done is to engage in a public information campaign to educate people on why vaccination is a major boon and highlight the risks of having poor vaccination coverage including the long term effects of illness even in younger healthy people. Punitive action just to ‘punish’ people for not going along is neither an effective way to get a positive response nor does it promote trust between health authorities and the general public.

You are incorrect about this as well. CDC Frequently Asked Questions About COVID-19 Vaccination: “Who is paying for COVID-19 vaccinations?”

Vaccine doses purchased with U.S. taxpayer dollars will be given to the American people at no cost. However, vaccination providers can charge an administration fee for giving someone the shot. Vaccination providers can be reimbursed for this by the patient’s public or private insurance company or, for uninsured patients, by the Health Resources and Services Administration’s Provider Relief Fund. No one can be denied a vaccine if they are unable to pay the vaccine administration fee.

Regardless of how you feel about UHC versus private insurance there are a lot of criticisms to levy that the US health care system, but this is not one of them. Vaccination in general is, again, a societal benefit, and arguably all vaccines (certainly the common ones) should be made available without cost because, like public education, it is a net benefit to the nation as a whole. In that light, we should be providing both education about vaccines and making them as widely and readily available as possible even to people who express doubts or who have rejected vaccination previously.


Sorry, I had a ‘HaHaHa’, after the ‘offer it once‘ suggestion, clearly I lost it in editing, my bad.

I wasn’t referring to who would pay for the vaccine in the US. I was wondering if your health insurer can refuse to cover your hospital costs is you refuse the vaccine. Because, yknow, you hear a lot about people being refused stuff for pretty silly reasons.

I had assumed, even in America, the government covers the vaccine cost.

Getting a vaccine isn’t an individual’s perk. It’s a group effort for the greater public health good. Saying ner-ner-too-late to people who refuse one vaccine doesn’t help any of us.

Sorry, my misunderstanding. That is a perfectly valid question because insurance companies have become very brazen about what comprises a “pre-existing” or invalidating condition for coverage, including refusing to cover very standard and long-performed surgeries because the company has it on its secret list of what are and are not “experimental procedures”.

The utter lack of regulation and transparency of insurance company policy is but one facet of the many dire problems with the for-profit US health care system. I’m fairly agnostic at this point as to whether the health care system should be a public enterprise, single-payer private, subsidized not-for-profit, or other model, but regardless of what your economic belief system is, health care in the US does not serve the population well even for people with ostensibly good coverage.

You would think that, and indeed it is true for SARS-CoV-2 vaccination, but unfortunately not true in general. The seasonal influenza vaccine, for instance, is available via a patchwork of employer subsidies or coverage, state and local health programs, insurance plans, and private foundations, and if you don’t fall under one of these it is an out-of-pocket expense (fortunately not a big one but if you are living from paycheck to paycheck you may be inclined to skip the ~$50/person cost).

For your entertainment: Katie Porter questioning CDC Director Dr, Robert Redfield about cost-free testing.. Our current system of public health surveillance and protection “works” only because pissed off single mothers-become-Representatives and professional comedians shame congresspeople and government officials into doing their jobs.


You might try your luck here:

Vaccinations in the UK have reached the million mark now. I have yet to see any reports of serious adverse reactions

Israel is at about 3M with their first dose, 1.7M both doses.

But some hesitancy is about longer term side effects. So immediate reports of no extra arms within a month won’t necessarily calm everyone.