Help with Job Decision (academia vs. nat'l lab)

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’ve posted here in the past, but have taken a long leave of absence because SDMB was a bit of a procrastination tool for me :p. But I’m faced now with a really difficult question, and I’m find it difficult to get good, impartial advice because everyone I know has some vested interest. This is the only place I know to go, with smart level-headed people (and maybe even a few astronomers, or past astronomers).

I am a graduate student in astronomy, and plan on graduating this summer. I’ve been applying left and right for post-docs, but it’s been a competitive season. So I should have been ecstatic to receive an offer from a research in a small town in the midwest, but I wasn’t. I don’t know why, because the research group is quite good, and my potential supervisor is well-known and respected in the field, though he’s also known for being “challenging” and a bit of a taskmaster. It would basically be continuing in my current line of research, though probably having to work much harder than I already do now. I don’t completely understand why, when I got the job offer, it felt like I had been punched in the gut and I’ve been a nervous wreck ever since.

But I have some ideas. My twin sister lives in the same city I do right now and I hate the idea of moving away from her again. (She can’t move with me, there are no jobs for her in the town.) We lived in different states during college and I only got to see her every couple of months. Being separated from her was painful from beginning to end, and I know that I am so much happier when I am living in the same city as her. The other issue, though more minor, is my husband’s job. He loves his current company and won’t be able to find a job like that where this post-doc is, though I’m sure he can find something to pay the bills.

The added complication: I have an interview lined up with a national lab, and they have told me that I should get a decision from them before I have to decide on the post-doc offer. (There’s also of course the possibility that they won’t offer me the job.) It would be doing very different work, not astronomy, but I think I would be interested in it. I’ve never been the type of person who has to do astronomy. Moreover, this potential job involves doing many smaller projects, which at this point seems so much more appealing than large research projects that arc over years. I like to learn new things, and the idea of doing smaller month-long projects really appeals to me. However, when I brought up this job to my advisor, he seemed really disappointed in me for considering it. He thinks taking this job is “selling out.” I hate the thought of disappointing him, even though I know that shouldn’t factor into my decision.

I need to make a decision in about a week, and I have no idea what to do. Do I uproot myself and my husband and take the astronomy-related post-doc job, or do I give up astronomy (and brave my advisor’s disappointment) but stay near my family to take the national lab job?

I know this is ultimately a decision I have to make on my own, but any advice is appreciated!

P.S. I don’t know whether it’s worth saying, but behind the current job offers is a secret desire of mine to do science writing. I can’t apply for science writing positions right now because I don’t have the experience, but I’ve been doing volunteer writing to collect some clips. Hopefully, a few years down the line, I can switch careers to do this as my day job. But this again factors in to location - science writing is easy where I am now, because there’s a lot of stuff happening here. In a small midwest town though, I imagine it will be more difficult. Particularly if what little free time I have is watched over by a taskmaster supervisor… But I don’t know if I’m just making excuses at this point. Sorry for the rambling!

2

I’m an astronomy grad student too. I’ve got a couple of years left, but I’m starting to pay attention to job possibilities.

I think you should listen to the punched in the gut feeling, it’s there for a reason.

I also think your advisor needs to get over it. A significant fraction of astronomy types will have to (want to?) leave academia and the stigma against it isn’t going to help anyone.

3

Hmm. Speaking as one of the many non-astronomy people, I’d like to ask one question: What?

Are there better donuts on Fridays at one place or the other? What’s the money situation at each? Dress code differences? Other than that, I got nothin’.

4

Sorry, but it sounds like a no-brainer to me: national lab.

5

Here, let me clear up some of your rambling:

Does that make your decision easier?

Stranger

6

If you don’t like moving don’t go into academics. In all likelihood you will move when your post doc finishes. Then you will likely move a few more times as you establish your research.

My wifes post doc boss moved 7 times before ending up a full prof. My wife is at her 3rd Uni position now. I can think of very few academics (and I have known a lot) who haven’t moved often in their career.

7

I suppose the way I wrote my original post made my decision pretty obvious, I guess I just needed to hear somebody tell me that my decision is the right one to make. You’re absolutely right, bannerrefugee, and that’s one of the main reasons academia looks so unappealing to me. I’m definitely ready for something new.

So now I just have to do fantastically well at the national lab interview so that I land the job…and then I’ll face off with my advisor. (Thank god he’s out of town right now.) I really hope I land this position, otherwise I may have to take the post-doc anyway, just to have a job. It would be very difficult to turn down a perfectly good post-doc if I have nothing else on the horizon.

8

I caught the same thing from my graduate advisor when I changed careers from true, pure, beautiful academia. Whether or not you disappoint your advisor should be your *last *consideration. Remember, it’s your life you’re living, not his.

9

The way medical certification works in Spain is: after 6 “grades” of medical school (which would ideally take 6 years), you’re eligible for “generalist” non-permanent jobs and to take the MIR. The MIR is an exam which gives access to internships, required to be able to take permanent jobs. The list of results is ordered. The person who passed with the best grade gets to choose from the whole country-wide list of available internships; the second one choses next, etc.

My sister in law passed with a very good number, much better than what she theoretically needed in order to get the position she wanted. So all of a sudden, lots of people were telling her “oh, but how are you going to accept an internship for Family Doctor in the hospital of the small town where you live? You can get a surgery internship in Madrid or in Barcelona! You can’t throw away that great grade!” She was a wreck over it. How am I going to fail my parents like this, what am I going to do, everybody tells me I should take a surgery internship of some kind in one of the really-huge hospitals, what will I do…

Finally, my brother grabbed her shoulders and said. “Judy. Judy. JUUUDEEEEEE!” “Uh. What?” “God, woman, you’re driving yourself so crazy over this I had to call your name three times. OK. What do you want to do? What have I known that you wanted to do since, let me recall, two months after we met, and that was ten years ago?”
“Be a family doctor.”
“OK. And are you interested in big hospitals, or in turning the next three years into a long-distance relationship, or in us both moving to one of the biggest towns in the country and me looking for a job there?”
“Well, no!”
“So why are you even considering doing it?”
“But everybody…”
“FUCK EVERYBODY!”
At that point, my mother, my other brother and I applauded.
I do hope you get the second offer, because it sure sounds like it’s what you want to do. Which, if you have a choice, is what you should do!

10

This. Ignoring your feelings about a major life decision is a good way to be miserable. Living your life the way someone else thinks you should is another good way to be miserable. I would say that living in a small town in the Midwest is a third good way to be miserable, but that’s just the fact that I know I would be miserable living in a small town. YMMV, but it sounds like yours doesn’t.

Most of us have to. It’s a matter of simple math. I went to a retirement party for an astronomy professor at the University of Maryland. While everybody was saying nice things about him, they noted that he had trained 17 graduate students over the course of his career. He opened up one job when he retired. The number of astronomy professorships available isn’t increasing, but there are more people graduating with astronomy degrees every year.

11

You’re an astronomer – you of all people should know that there’s always something on the horizon. You could always freelance for a few years. Astronomer for hire.

Kidding. One question I would have about the academic track is how much job security is there likely to be after the post-doc. One always hears about how scarce and how fiercely fought-over academic jobs are. How likely is it that you would finish your post-doc and find yourself with no further options (or at least no desirable options) at all?

12

In my field it’s not uncommon for people to finish the PhD, work somewhere for a while, then go back to academia and start a post-doc. So you could ask around and get a feeling of how much you’d be closing the door on an academic career, so to speak, and that may help you in the decision process. Despite his bias your advisor may be able to offer some thoughts. Also realize that just because your advisor expresses his opinion, it doesn’t necessarily mean that he wants you do anything other than what’s right for you and your family.

But yeah, it seems like you just needed to type this all out. Best wishes on the interview.

13

The National Labs can be awesome places to work, especially for postdocs. You’ll be working with some of the best scientists in the world, it sounds like you’ll get a chance to branch out and apply your knowledge to new subject areas, you get the happy feeling of doing national service while doing interesting work, and you don’t have the pressure of grubbing for grants. Plus, there tends not to be so much petty interpersonal drama as you sometimes find in small departments. I frankly don’t see why any scientist would choose academia, unless you like teaching (weirdo).

Good luck!