Helping a woman down steps

In My Humble Opinion
1

Some friends and I had an opportunity to look at some antique streetcars last Sunday. We were allowed to climb into several of the cars, just to take a look around.

In situations like this, I like to offer ladies my hand to help them down the steps, in case they need it. Predictably, some of the women accepted the assistance, whereas others declined. After visiting the second car though, one woman told me, “You know, you already offered once before and I declined. That should tell you that a woman doesn’t need help. You really shouldn’t offer a second time.”

What are your opinions on this issue?

Perhaps this was naivete on my part, but I was surprised by this reaction. On the one hand, I understand that women don’t want anyone to think that they’re physically incapable of traversing the steps. I would not interpret such gestures in this manner, though. To my mind, it’s akin to holding a door open for a woman. Most women can open doors themselves, but this is nevertheless understood to be a polite gesture.

On a more practical matter, I can see problems with withholding one’s hand just because a woman declined the first time. For one thing, there’s no guarantee that she won’t feel that she needs help the second time around. For another, the woman might think, “Wait a minute. Why isn’t he offering help this time? Did I offend him? Is he snubbing me?” And finally, I think it just looks bad if you offer help to some of the women but not the others. It might be perfectly innocent, but onlookers might think that you’re being deliberately rude or showing favoritism.

In situations like this, I would prefer to err on the side of caution. I know that some would disagree, as the woman in question did. Personally though, I think that when in doubt, it’s best to offer the help, understanding that it might very well be declined.

Again, your thoughts?

2

I don’t have any specific thoughts on your situation, but I did find your “holding the door” analogy interesting. Although you mention holding it for “women,” I presume you do the same for guys too, right? However, I suspect you don’t do the same for helping dudes down stairs. You do mention that “I understand that women don’t want anyone to think that they’re physically incapable of traversing the steps,” but that fact that you only offer such to the women may imply such, even if you don’t believe it to be explicitly true.

Just throwing it out there–I don’t have much of an opinion on this either way.

3

I hold doors open for men on occasion, but not as consistently. It’s generally considered to be gentlemanly behavior to do this for the opposite sex, although there are some who take offense at such gestures.

If you don’t like that analogy though, consider the custom of pulling a woman’s chair out as she sits at a table. Most women are perfectly capable of pulling out their own chairs, and yet this is considered to be a polite gesture. In contrast, men are most certainly NOT expect to pull out chairs for other men!

Ditto for helping other men down stairs. I think it’s safe to say that unless a man has some sort of disability, the overwhelming majority would rather not take a man’s hand in order to be helped down a set of steps. Perhaps I’m wrong in this regard, but I don’t think so.

4

I would offer a hand up to the elderly, pregnant, or anyone who looked like they wanted it. I would also offer it to my wife or sister because I know them and I know they would like it. Other than that, I wouldn’t offer a hand up to a woman in my same age group. To be honest, it wouldn’t occur to me unless they looked like they needed a hand up. I don’t know if it matters, but I’m 42, this might breakdown by age.

5

So what makes this situation different from, say, pulling a woman’s chair out in a restaurant? I think it’s far more likely that a woman will need help down the steps than help in moving her own chair.

6

As a female, and a complete klutz, I appreciate being helped down difficult terrain. I’m not entirely sure that a streetcar counts as “difficult terrain”, seeing as it’s designed to have people climbing in and out of it all day. Depends how big the stairs are, I guess.

Considering women are often shorter, frequently less muscular and likely to be wearing less sensible shoes than men, I’m not seeing the implied insult which the woman in the OP appeared to be seeing. I also think it’s a bit presumptuous of her to apparently think she’s speaking for all women.

I do think you should eventually stop offering if it’s clear that a particular person doesn’t intend to accept assistance. Twice is fine, but after you got to the fifth or sixth car I think you ought to be able to work out on an individual basis who wanted your help and who didn’t

7

I think it was a lovely gesture on your part, and that woman was a little catty for saying what she did. A “No, thank you,” would have been sufficient.

Kinda related aside…one day I was about to drive away from the gas pump when I saw a teenaged boy leave the station/convenience store, complete with black clothes, lots of piercings, and the requisite sullen look. He was about 20 feet to the right of the door when he looked back and saw a little old lady approaching the door from about 10 feet to the left of the door. He spun right around, darted back to the door and held it open for this lady. I couldn’t wipe the grin off my face for a few days. Nice to see someone taught him manners and respect.

8

I don’t pull chairs out for women. I would for my wife, but I don’t think I’ve ever done it for anyone else.

9

This - I will always offer to help any (adult) ladies over difficult terrain regardless…

10

In the olden days of streetcars women with long skirts and high-button shoes probably could have used the help. Today, not so much.

What I like is when people figure out the appropriate thing to do for the moment. Here’s an example. I was at a concert with a young man, and I was wearing spike-heeled shoes. I have no problem walking in spike heels as a normal thing. However, at the end of the concert, instead of letting us go out the way we came in, we were for some reason herded out a side door, where we were confronted with a grate. A sort of rectangular grid. A grate too big to step over. And not by just a step or two. It was about 10 feet.

At this point a number of men accompanying people who were wearing spike-heeled shoes offered their hands or their arms. The young man I was with observed this and did the same for me, which was wonderful as I had some support while tiptoeing over this stupid grate. (Okay. I have gone overboard not to use the phrase “I was grateful.” But I can’t fight it anymore.)

Barring circumstances like these, I wouldn’t necessarily rebuff aid in walking, but I would think, “What the hell, do I look frail or something?” Because I think generally these things apply to (1) women you’re with, or (2) women who obviously need the assistance.

I really hate the chair-pulling thing, though, because I flunked the girl course on how to sit down and get your chair under the table gracefully while somebody else is operating the chair. I don’t get the moves even with waiters, who are good at this. Stay the hell away from my chair. (And don’t even *think *about putting the napkin in my lap.)

11

I was waiting to get on a bus in a line behind a large man wearing a cowboy hat. In front of him was a rather petite woman wearing a very tight miniskirt. As she tried to get on the bus, her skirt rode up, so she reached back and unzipped the top a bit and then tried again. Still the step up to the bus was a bit too long for her to make, so she unzipped the skirt just a little bit more. Finding herself confounded a second time, she was just reaching back to undo the zipper a bit more when the large man put his hands on the woman’s waist and lifted her onto the bus.

Indignant, she turned around and fumed, “How dare you put your hands on me without my permission!” The Texan drawled, “Well ma’am, after you unzipped my fly twice I figured we were on friendly terms.”

12

Joke fail. (1) A miniskirt that ridesup makes it easier to take a big step, not harder. (2) Unzipping it wouldn’t do anything that would help. (3) In actual fact your hand would have to be in a completely different position to unzip your own garment as opposed to that of anyone else.

13

Try it. In my experience, women tend to express profuse appreciation at this gesture.

14

The difference is when you pull a lady’s chair out at a restaurant or opening a door for her, you’re not deliberately making physical contact. When you take her hand to help her on or off a streetcar or across difficult terrain, you are.

Now you, of course, are a gentleman and a Doper who would never dream of using physical contact as an opening to further your interests where they’re not wanted. None of the gentlemen here would, no matter how attractive the woman (quiet, guys – don’t shatter my illusion;) ). However, not all men are the paragons of virtue the men of the SDMB are and you’d be surprised at what some guys consider an invitation to just about anything they want. There are times when the lady is thinking, “How nice. He helped me off of that streetcar” while the guy is thinking, “She held my hand and squeezed it! She wants me!”

That may not happen often, but I’d be willing to bet most women have run into men who think minor, incidental contact is more than it is, and some have been
obnoxious about it. I still remember one guy who, when he saw me hugging a good, male friend, took that as an invitation to put his hand halfway up my thigh when he sitting next to me. When I called him on his behaviour, he told me that since I hugged my old friend, he figured it was OK.

I could see getting into the spirit of things and offering one’s hand to a lady while touring a display of antique streetcars, and I’d take it as charming and possibly flirtatious, but I like chivalrous and gentlemanly behaviour. However, if a lady’s having a rough time of things, or not in the mood for the company of people she doesn’t know, I could see why she’d get annoyed with repeated offers. She might even have had the misfortune of taking up with a man who thinks every other man is out to steal her away from him and who might misinterpret your actions. In everyday life, I’m afraid I’d probably refuse your offer, too, because I like my independence, and, however well-intentioned your offer, to me, an offer of help from a stranger implies a degree of helplessness.

Does this, er, help?

15

Those are good points, but we’re not talking about a group of total strangers, here. As I said in the OP, this was a group of friends.

I wasn’t offering to help every single woman present, just the women in our group. Oh, and this one elderly lady who looked like she needed the assistance.

In fact, the woman who objected was one of my closest friends up until recently. So in this case at least, I don’t see this being a matter or refusing physical contact from complete strangers.

16

I’m sorry. I missed the part where she was part of a group of friends. In that case, I’d ask her, or get someone who knows her better to ask her.

17

Not going to happen, we’re equals and all that.

18

I can`t imagine why the women in your group would need assistance if the men wouldn’t. Are all the women you hang out with in their 80s? Do they suffer tremors? Is there something about your female friends that makes them less capable of traversing steps other than being female? Offering at all sounds really weird. Offering twice sounds really obnoxious.

19

Oh yeah- I’m horrible at this too, and then I keep trying to be graceful about it, and it just dosent work. Its awkward and makes me feel like some sort of doll. I don’t like it. Same goes for people helping me up places- I just dont know what to do with that outstretched hand. I find a “helping hand” more often a hinderance to getting up places than a help. And again, it makes me feel like the guy doing it thinks of me as a fragile doll. I don’t like it.

Doors are another issue- I hold doors for people if I get there first, regardless of gender, and if a guy gets there first and holds the door, I don’t interpret it as a gender thing- he got there first.

20

I’m bad at going down steps. Climb down a 100m vertical wall? Sure, no problem, and no I don’t want the harness. Go down the sidewalk? I’m likely to misstep :smack:, twist my ankle and whatnot. I’m one of those people who manage to fall down from a standing, not-going-anywhere position. So I absolutely have nothing against people who offer me a hand (or a shoulder, if I’m up on a ladder) to hold onto.

Opening the doors, I’ve mentioned before that the way my Dad (who was a complete gentleman) taught it to us is that the door must be opened by whomever makes traversing it easier for both parts involved: the person who moves more easily, doesn’t have a toddler in one hand and a couple shopping bags in the other, or will be pulling (if the person pushing holds the door open, they actually get in the way of the other person - that’s not a favor, it’s the opposite!).

The chairs thing, I hadn’t encountered it until I got to the USA and I don’t think I’ll ever get used to it; plus, most of the guys who’ve tried to do it for me were doing it as part of the whole “seduction” crapola: they didn’t know how to open doors without getting in my way and they didn’t know how to pull chairs out for me in such a way that it didn’t look like they wanted me to sit on the chair’s two front legs.