Helping Boy Scouts - long

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve been thinking lately about volunteering to help one of my local Boy Scout troops. Tonight a Cub Scout and his dad delivered my popcorn that I bought from the kid a couple of weeks ago and it reminded me about volunteering.

I’d like to give something back to Scouting. I had a great time in Boy Scouts and my Scoutmaster was one of the 5 men who influenced my life.

I’d like to know if some SDMB Scouting people could give me some feedback/thoughts on the following:

  1. I’m an athiest. If you met me, you’d have to ask me six questions and back me in a corner before I admit this. I was raised that a person’s religion is a private thing and nobody else’s business.

When I was in Boy Scouts (age 13-16), there were a bunch of us who rebelled against doing the pledge, ". . . and do our duty, to God . . " We had a great Scoutmaster who realized that there was more than the pledge to being a Scout. We (athiests), just didn’t say that portion of the pledge out loud.

I realize that Scouts require a belief in God (or a God, or whatever,). I disagree with that requirement, but not so much that I don’t want to volunteer. (Atheism/agnosticism worked out in my troop, nobody cared about religion, we just were “Scouts”)

I’m willing to volunteer to help out. But I won’t lie to the “signup committee” if they ask me if I am a Christian/believe in “God”. Could I lead the Pledge? - Yes. You would just see my lips moving, but no voice coming out, for parts of it.

A Scout in my troop would have to ask me 18 questions before I would admit to being an athiest. And even then I would say, “Some people believe, some people don’t. Let’s go work on your next merit badge and you can talk to your folks about religous beliefs.”

  1. I don’t believe that Scouts should not be gay. I recognize the concerns over gay Scoutmasters, but I can’t believe that Scouts should be thrown out of Scouting because they are gay. Again, a scout would have to ask me 18 questions before I would express my personal opinion.

So, should I volunteer to help one of my local Scout troops out? I couldn’t be a Scoutmaster or Assistant Scoutmaster because I travel a lot and cannot be available for weekly meetings. But I would be willing to help out when I am in town. I work great with kids, I am experienced in and can teach camping, cross-country skiing, rafting, hiking, backpacking, canoeing, tracking animals, etc.

p.s. If you want to debate Scouting’s choice to not allow athiests or gays, call me to the Pit or Great Debates, don’t put it on this thread. Thanks.

2

First off, I’m probably the least qualified person to answer your question. Secondly, I very much admire your desire to give something back, and it sounds like you have a lot to give. It also sounds like you really want to help the kids, since you obviously don’t agree with the policies of the organization itself.

I was thinking this sounded like a great idea, for you to sort of be an “infiltrator,” and let kids see that there are people who don’t fit the status quo. But then I thought about the message they might get from that - if you are different, it’s important to pretend you’re not?

I think the most important lessons that kids learn from an organization like the Scouts are about life. I know there are lots of kids out there who need mentors and role models and friends. It is very disturbing to me that in the process, both they, and you, might be made to feel that they’re not okay just like they are.

3

Since you’re asking for advice and not facts, I’ll move this thread to IMHO.

bibliophage
moderator GQ

4

If you’re an atheist, BSA Inc. AFAIK doesn’t want you as a volunteer. As I understand it, “volunteers” have to be “members” and you are not eligible for membership, being an atheist. If you lie and say you’re not an atheist, or if you evade the question excessively, you are not IMHO fulfilling the requirement that a Scout be “morally straight,” nor are you being “truthful” and you are also not “reverent.”

Similarly, working for an organization which actively discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation, especially when you disagree with that policy, does not IMHO allow you to meet the requirement that you are “morally straight.” In one of the court documents associated with the Dale case, the specific text of the requirements for one of the aspects of the Scout Law requires Scouts to work actively against injustice. Working for an unjust organization is not only not working against injustice, it is fostering injustice.

What would I do in your place? I would make a donation to Scouting For All (www.scoutingforall.org) and find another youth group to volunteer for. And I’d write a letter to the local council and the national office explaining that the values that I learned in Scouting have made it so that I can’t volunteer for the Scouts until such time as they truly embody the values they claim to represent.

5

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Playdeaux *
**

Um, I’m okay just how I are. I’d like to lose 15 pounds, or convert it to muscle, but, you know, I"m pretty ok with it.

Part of my point is/was, I wouldn’t lie to a kid about my beliefs. I’d have to make sure that it was a legitimate question on the kid’s part, but then I’d give an honest answer.

But I want to know from some current Scout people if it’s OK for me to volunteer or should I:

  1. Not
  2. Meet with a Scout leader and say, “My name is Whistlepig and I don’t believe in God and I think that homosexuality is OK, though I don’t practice it myself. Can I help you guys?”
  3. Meet with a Scout leader and say, “My name is Whistlepig. I was a Boy Scout and I had a lot of fun and learned many things that shaped me as the man I am today. I know how to do (outdoor stuff). Can I help you guys?”
6

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Otto *

Similarly, working for an organization which actively discriminates on the basis of sexual orientation, especially when you disagree with that policy, does not IMHO allow you to meet the requirement that you are “morally straight.”

Sigh, dammit, Otto, you are right. I went to the Scouts page, (www.scouting.org) and buried in their press releases is a statement that essentially says:

“If you are a homosexual, you don’t uphold our standards and we don’t want you.”

{If I wasn’t lowrez, I’d cut and paste, but I can’t.}

I can’t support that.

I guess I’ll talk with the local Scout leader and say, “If you need assistance in training “X”, I can help.”

And if they ask me to be more active in Scouts, I can honestly say, “Sure. You know I’m an athiest? And I have a lot of gay friends?”
OTTO: What would I do in your place? I would make a donation to Scouting For All

Don’t do nothing in my town, bub.

7

AFAIK, you could be a merit badge counselor w/o having to express the BSA fealty.

8

There’s a deeper question, which is should you want to assist an organization with which you disagree on (what it for God knows what idiotic reasons has deemed) fundamental issues? I’m not that interested in being a volunteer, but when my (future) kids are the right age, I will send a letter to the BSA explaining that I want very much for them to participate but I cannot because of BSA’s policies.

–Cliffy

9

Don’t confuse the national organization with the individual troops. Officially, the national organization is theist and anti-homosexual, but I don’t think that that should mar your opinion of any particular subgroup. One of my best friends was very openly and vocally an atheist, and yet became chaplain (!?!) and ASPL in his troop, and went on to earn his Eagle. His troop, I’m sure, wouldn’t have given a darn about having you as an adult leader. I suspect that most troops would never even ask about your religion or orientation, or views on either, and if one does, then just go talk to another troop. Don’t ask, don’t tell.

Yes, there’s some people in the Big Top Offices who hold views rather different from yours, but so what? It’s not like they’re going to be following you home each day and looking in the windows. Go ahead and help the boys of your community with a clear conscience.

10

My son was a Scout for 3 years so I met a lot of volunteers.

I say, if you want to give something back, be a merit badge counselor or some other volunteer post that isn’t officially a member of the Scouts.

There were a lot of mothers who were counselors and other volunteers in my son’s troop. As far as I know, this Boy Scout troop has never admitted girls/women, but that didn’t stop them from accepting them as volunteers.

In arguments like this, I recall what my mother said (seriously!) She was a nurse, and she was staunchly pro-life. In the course of her job she sometimes had to care for patients who had undergone an abortion, even though the hospital did not require staff who were opposed to elective abortions to work on that floor. When I asked her how she reconciled this with her pro-life stand she said “I would not help them have an abortion, but once they’ve had it, they are a patient with a medical need and I couldn’t call myself a nurse if I wouldn’t treat them, anymore than I wouldn’t treat a car wreck victim who had been drinking.”

11

FWIW, I worked for the BSA this past summer and had to go through the whole screening process. I was not asked if I was a homosexual (but it could have been because I am female & my interviewers were male, so they didn’t feel it would have been appropriate). Neither was I asked if I was an athiest.

They DID ask me if I was okay with the BSA’s stance on homosexuality, which I answered honestly if not completely. I said that I did not support it personally, but was willing to accept it as an administrative decision, but I hoped it would change someday. They seemed OK with this.

I admit that I felt somewhat guilty about working for an organization with that kind of policy, but I kind of felt like I had a responsibility to provide the scouts with a positive influence inside the organization. Also, these kids need strong female role models, and I was proud to have that opportunity.

I will continue to work with the Boy Scouts, but I think that I am going to get involved with Scouting For All as well. Given the number of people I worked with who disapproved of the official BSA’s anti-gay policy, I hope that they will change eventually.

12

Funny you should ask this question. I am now in the process of calling all my Den Leaders to come pick up all their damn popcorn.

FWIW - I was a Den Leader for 2 years, and this year I am in charge of Popcorn Sales. While I do believe in God, exactly what I believe is strictly between me and my Higher Power. No one has ever asked, though. As far as the homosexuality, I personally do not agree, and I am NOT going to debate this issue. Again, no one ever asked.

If you want to help out, let the Den Master know. We constantly need volunteers to help plan fund raisers, shows, etc…or perhaps you could help out at the camps as a cook, or teach a skill. Do not let the recent flurry of media surrounding the Scouts deter you if you want to help out.

13

I’ve been an Assistant Scoutmaster for over five years now, and my sexual orientation, religion, and beliefs on BSA policy have never been inquired into. I’ll note as well that Scouting For All takes the opposite stance as otto, namely that you should volunteer and work to take back the organization from the homophobes in Texas that run it. Personally, I respect and understand both points of view.

14

You might consider helping out an alternate group that doesn’t get half the monitary support the BSA does-The Girl Scouts.

15

As things are different in Canada and the states… and I am with Guides rather than Scouts… I won’t offer anything definitive.

I will just say that volunteer where you feel you can, call up your local Scouting group (they should have a number) and let them know you are willing to help. I don’t know if this is true in the States but here as far as I know they don’t ask about religion or sexual orientation (probably the so thing would be asked seeing as what their stance is) but if Scouts is anything like Guides they have revised their promise and such. In Guides they revised it so it says “To be true to myself, my faith/God and Canada”

Here you can say either God or faith it’s your choice.

I’d just say go look into it. Organizations always need helpers… even part-time ones.