Here's my opinion on all of this... [presidential politics]

In My Humble Opinion
1

Elections and campaigns are always somewhat divisive. But this last presidential election is by far the worst in my opinion. Every internet forum that I participate in is chock full of “get the bum out” and also “hail the new conquering hero” type posts. By which I mean that it’s not just “it’s time for a change” comments but extremely opinionated, almost battle-cry comments on both sides of the political spectrum. Friends and families are divided or arguing bitterly, or best case, keeping to themselves to avoid a nasty argument. It’s extremely unhealthy for the country.

Another thought that comes to mind, not for the first time, but I think this election really proves the point: the two party system is practically designed to be polarizing. If there were five parties like in some countries, the divisions would be more subtle and more frequent, but less damaging, I think. What we have now with two parties is a complete “us versus them”, “we’re going to heaven, they’re going to hell” mentality. Again, not good!

(And just a tangential thought… it’s really very odd how president Trump co-opted one of the parties and turned it inside out so that it doesn’t even really have the same platform that it used to. Logically what he should have done was run on one of the third parties, but of course nobody can win that way. But it blows my mind that the republicans let their party be so warped by an outsider.)

I’m just mystified, really. Like, where am I and what happened to everyone? :confused:

2

Your two party system worked pretty good. For a really long time. I’m inclined to blame the 24hr news cycle. Time to fill shifts to shocking and awful draws max viewers, let’s just focus on that!

Then comes the Internet, into every home, where you never need hear news that conflicts with your worldview.

Personally I don’t think shifting to a multi party system will really mend the divide. I think it will take more than that.

3

I think Presidential politics is inherently more polarizing than anything else on the ballot. Where I live, local elections from school board all the way up to Governor often do have three or four serious candidates, and there are usually two candidates who aren’t far apart from each other… Ballot initiatives also seem much more open to discussion and debate than choice in President.

4

I don’t see how you can blame the 24 hour news cycle for this phenomenon:

[ol]
[li]Candidate says inflammatory things. Instead of being excoriated, it’s ignored.[/li][li]Candidate says more inflammatory things about different people/groups. Instead of being ejected from the party, party hems and haws and then sullenly stands behind him.[/li][li]Candidate says absolutely awful things. Instead of booing him out of the room, people cheer him. (Like, WTF?)[/li][li]Candidate says absolutely ignorant things. People love him even more.[/li][li]Candidate says even more horrible things. Gets elected to highest office in the nation.[/li][/ol]

I mean… well, that’s what’s generating all of the debates here, I know. But still, it’s going to take a really long time for me to stop shaking my head and asking “What the ever loving fuck!?” I wasn’t necessarily anti-Trump this time last year. I have close friends and family members who have become intense fans of his over this past year. So events over the whole year have me thinking that I’ve been abducted to an alternate universe. People who I thought I knew… well, they’ve been replaced somehow.

So in this alternate universe, we can say horrible shit about anybody and people will cheer and applaud?

5

There you have nailed it.

6

I find it really odd how Secretary Clinton co-opted the Democratic Party claiming that somehow it was “her turn” and that she got the DNC to actually conspire against Sanders who was turning out huge crowds compared with the number of supports that she drew during few campaign events she held. She was a lousy, lazy campaigner who lacked charisma and was far more physically ill that she would admit to. Yet Clinton held the Democratic Party hostage to the bitter end and blamed everyone and everything but herself for her defeat. Biden, Warren, Kerry and even Gore could have been better campaigners, but no, she had waited so long and this was her last chance and now the Democratic Party is in disarray. And what the hell is she doing at the Inauguration shaking hands and making nice with Trump who has promised to dismantle every single thing Obama accomplished over the last 8 years?

7

I don’t know if you’re talking about public or private claims, but I don’t recall Mrs. Clinton every expressing the view that it was “her turn,” or that the Party owed her anything.

I certainly had some concerns about her, and was pretty put off by her in 2008, but in this election it seemed to me that she was doing a pretty good job campaigning. In fact, I still can’t comprehend how or why she lost. Guess I’m in a bubble.

8

I’ve been trying to observe current events from a “no presumptions” POV to try to get a handle on this whole new zeitgeist.

To make an attempt to sum up my raw thoughts for the first time, I’m beginning to conclude that it’s really all about the polarization between global and local interests, between the impulses of humanism and tribalism. To put it into even more abstract terms that most succinctly summarize my thinking without getting too bleak, it’s like watching a great mathematical showdown between the powers of addition and division.

9

Thread title edited for clarity.

10

This is a tired excuse. If Bernie had half the support he is alleged to have, he could have wrested the nomination out from under Clinton, not unlike, well, exactly what Trump did with the GOP. Or he could even have run as an Independent, instead of, you know, trying to co-op the Democratic Party nomination (when he, himself, is not even a registered Democrat).

The two-party system only exists because we allow it to. Fewer than half of the eligible voters in this country even vote these days, and even then, the vote is typically more or less split down the middle. So only roughly 25% of voters actually care enough to vote Republican, or Democrat. Get the other 50% to vote for someone else (or even split that other half between two or three other parties) and you’d see an end to the 2-party system.

11

I don’t think the 2016 Republicans are in any position to decide what they will or will not let their activist base or their major donors “do” these days. They are very much all about trying to keep track of which way the winds are blowing and nervously crowdsurfing their base to stay in power. They dog whistled up what they needed to keep them in power but that group is largely dissatisfied with business as usual.

12

The reason for the growing polarity among US voters over the last several decades is gerrymandering by both parties. The redrawing of voting districts by elected governerships so that it is more difficult for the opposing party to win in future elections. This has resulted in the independent vote becoming less meaningful.

Add to that, an election where the two choices were the least liked candidates in modern history. The majority of people weren’t voting for someone, but against someone.

Like most things, this too shall pass. I have confidence in our government system, that no permanent damage can be done by the current administration.

13

I am so with you! I have looked at people I care very deeply for and just said, “Who ARE you?”

It’s not that I didn’t know most of my people are Republican, so that was no surprise, but what does is that I keep hearing them say stuff like, “I can’t stand John McCain!”, and “Mitt Romney is a useless old fool!” This, after these same folks were singing their praises a few years ago and voting for these guys. When questioned, I get this: “Well, they wanted the House, and we gave them the House, and then the same with the Senate, and what did they do? They just went up there and rolled over for Obama and let him have whatever he wanted!”

At that point I have to step off the porch because this makes not one lick of sense to me.

A female relative defended voting for Trump because “People like alpha males”.

If Trump is her idea of an alpha male, then I won’t be going to any Male Revues with her!

Opinions are just so strong this time and people are so defensive to the point that each party is demonized in the other’s eyes. It seems very few people can agree to disagree enough to even have a productive conversation. Democrats are not evil and Republicans are not Nazis, but it gets said over and over until people believe it.

When I put on my Pollyanna rose-colored glasses, I like to think that maybe this whole mess will bring about enough reform in both parties that reasonable people in the middle will feel like they have a political home again. The far fringes of each party have expanded so much that they are pulling us all down.

I have waffled so much on the point about multiple parties. One day I am thinking it would help, other days I don’t. Maybe a new party, or parties, will form? Maybe they shouldn’t. But I do know Trump is not a Republican, so whatever he is, I don’t want to be that.

14

I would argue that the 1860 election was far more ugly and contentious than this election. It lead to several states succeeding from the Union and eventually war.

I also think it was a class act for the Clintons to attend the inauguration. It makes the subtle point that each election is a part of a continuous democratic process no matter which party wins.

15

Yes, I had this discussion with several friends. However someone may feel about Hillary, it took phenomenal gumption to drag her carcass in there and sit there, very composed, through her SECOND Inaugural that she thought should have been hers. It shows she does indeed believe and understand that our government and our institutions are bigger than the people who hold the offices. You gotta hand it to her, she showed tremendous self-control. What with Trump all standing there grinning like a mule eatin’ briars…you know she wanted to just slap him into next week and make him see tomorrow today.

16

I don’t think more parties would help.

I’m starting to think that the “us vs. them” stuff is a feature, not a bug, of the two-party system. Isn’t it kind of weird that it happened so naturally? Yes, there were always opinion-makers putting out propaganda that served their own interests, but how strange that roughly half of the voting population seems to buy it every time? Is that luck, or human nature?

Maybe there has to be an “us” and a “them”, and we have to be roughly equal in power. You can be a radical and blame mainstream society for all that’s wrong, but most people aren’t comfortable doing that because it puts them in the weakest possible position: a lone crusader against an impossibly strong opponent. A ragtag band of rebels against everybody else.

On the other hand, if the opposition is too weak, we can’t credibly blame them for all our problems. That’s why they have to be strong enough to oppress us, but weak enough to give us hope.

Note that “the issues” don’t come into it at all under this scenario. What really matters is that there’s an “us” that’s right, and a “them” that’s wrong. What matters is that all “our” problems are caused by “them”. And despite what many would like to believe, there’s no shadowy cabal directing this process. It’s happening organically.

The weirdest thing is to know this, and still be required to participate in it. I know who I am: I’m one of us, and I can’t deny it. If you’re one of them, you can’t deny it either. That means you and me’s fightin’, whether we like it or not. The world must - must - tear itself apart, and your individual will is nothing compared to society’s need to destroy itself, renew itself, and destroy itself again until the end of time.

So if you’re one of them, and we end up hurting each other, or killing each other or something, maybe we should just agree not to take it personally, because we’re all just doing our jobs here. Right?

17

Pretty sure she was there as a former first lady, along with Michelle and Laura, not as a former candidate.

18

I can only judge by my own feelings and some of those around me. I have a feeling this will push both parties to drop their fringes and somehow connect in the middle, they could end up in either one of the two parties but my feeling is that moderate republicans will likely go democrat. I know democrats have learned their lesson on ignoring the middle class.

19

Oh yes, I get that. But regardless of whatever capacity she was there fulfilling, it doesn’t change the fact that she is having to sit there and make nice to the victorious candidate that she just lost to and all the recent (and likely still very raw) feelings attached to that.

And I highly doubt anyone else in attendance or watching was thinking, oh look, there’s Hillary Clinton, former First Lady. Everyone was thinking, oh look, there’s Hillary… She lost to Mr. Tiny Hands. Bless her heart.

20

I hope with every fiber of my being you are right! I am tired of feeling politically homeless.