I don’t care if a third party gets elected or better supported in my local elections.
So you don’t actually care about 3rd party viability?
Because supporting local 3rd party candidates is what actually will help to make 3rd parties viable. You don’t go from nothing straight to the presidency, you have to build a party from the ground up.
I cannot speak for manson1972 but I can say that in our system of elections a two party system is almost a mathematical certainty. You might get a blip here and there outside the norm but strategic voting guarantees a two party system (at least at the national level). The two parties then entrench that system with things like Gerrymandering. Again, there might be an occasional outlier but the system will strongly trend to two parties.
Right. The use of third parties is to bring up issues that neither of the “real” ones has taken to heart, and make one of them embrace it. That done, the third party disappears. Examples are George Wallace making the Republicans embrace racism at a time when neither would, and Ross Perot making the Democrats embrace fiscal responsibility at a time when neither would.
Nope, as I made clear. If they get matching funds, that’s cool. If they don’t, that’s cool too. My vote could have maybe helped a 3rd party get matching funds. It sure wasn’t going to help Clinton get elected, nor prevent Trump from getting elected.
Plus I get the added bonus of saying “Well, I didn’t vote for him!” when people complain about Trump. Just as I would say “Well, I didn’t vote for her!” if Clinton had won and people started complaining about her.
It’s win-win for me really.
The problem with that statement is that in today’s United States, it’s basically meaningless. The Overton window in this country is so far to the right it has a nosebleed. American liberals are “liberal” in the world sense - center-right - as opposed to the hard-right of the Republican Party (and in spite of the word “liberal” in this country being understood to be synonymous with “left-wing” - sure, NPR looks “left-wing” compared to FAUX Noise but that don’t make it truly left).
The Democrats, being a center-right party, are mostly made up of - gasp - centrists and right-wingers, with a small (and, fortunately, now growing) Bernie wing that is right about where Bernie is - moderately leftist - and further to the left.
Seriously. The number of House members that are actually left-of-center could comfortably fit in one of them portable classroom thingies like where my band class was in the sixth grade because the cacophony drove the other teachers nuts when it was in the main building and when it comes to the Senate, hell… the actual leftists in the Senate could fit in my fucking bedroom with enough space to chill and watch the tee-vee box while I sit off to the side on my laptop playing Saints Row IV or something.
Don’t believe me? Well, here’s the 2016 primaries Political Compass. Note that Hillary is not only on the right-wing side, she’s 7 out of ten notches to the right. The only major difference between her and the Day-Glo Dotard Himself is that Trump is hella authoritarian on the social scale - 9/10 - while Hillary is only four notches up on that axis. Economically, she’s almost as far to the right as Trump as I am to the left - and I’m a Trotskyist!
So, 2016’s cycle comes along, and along with the usual stable of center-right Derpocrats comes someone who is at least somewhat left wing, even if barely to the left from the center (refer to the Primaries compass above) - Bernie Sanders. Yay, finally someone who we can finally support! No more “lesser evil” voting - someone who we can vote for!
…aaaaaaand he gets crushed due to a combination of DNC corruption and “my” people - that is, African-Americans - bringing that cult of personality bullshit with the Clinton worship. Never mind the fact that the Clintons are partially or wholly responsible for letting the Republicans flamethrower what was left of the FDR/Johnson social safety net, the “tough on crime” nonsense that makes even the most goody-two-shoes amongst us side-eye every cop that passes within a 500 foot radius, kickstarting the media consolidation that crashed minority ownership in telecom, and lots, lots more.
Us non-privileged Blacks who have more than two brain cells and a road between them have the sense to abhor and despise the Clintons, but the stupid ones and the privileged ones (easily identifiable by their tacky, excessive cars) who think they’re too good to share with the less fortunate helped sink Bernie.
And to them, as well as every Hillbot… well, looks like we’re all enjoying Trump’s America now, aren’t we? I’d hope y’all at least have enough sense to not pull this shit again in 2020. 
If the Democrats want to stop the cycle of hurting, they need to embrace democratic socialism. Not social democracy, but democratic socialism. Bernie identifies himself with the “S” word and managed to become the most popular politician today from it. From that to the growing number of “Berniecrats” getting swept into offices in waves (including in areas the Republicans thought they had a lock on) like Kshama Sawant, Lee Carter, Mik Pappas, Larry Krasner, et cetera in and since '16 has shown that it’s time for the Democratic Party to stop trying to emulate the Republicans (you’d think they’d have learned that with the Blue Dog Massacre, a.k.a. the 2010 election - “Fascist or crypto-fascist?” is like “microbrew or Miller Lite?” and in fact is also applicable to Trump vs. Hillary) and embrace real leftism. Us real leftists are mobilized now like ain’t been seen since the '60s thanks to Bernie restoring our hope that maybe we can finally be able to get people we can support - rather than just tolerate because “lesser evil” - into offices up and down, side to side across the land. The Democratic Socialists of America are the most prominent example from this beast awakening, but it’s far from the only entity involved. The Democrats would be wise to embrace this rather than blow it. Them donkeys are masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
Side note: take special note of Lee Carter’s Wikipedia page, particularly the part where one of the other Dems decided to pull a “hurr durr hammer n sickle see cuz lee’s a commie!!!” joke while in session. That’s the kind of Derpocratery that will continue to make us true progressives stay on our butts on election days and lose the Democrats more shit if it doesn’t stop.
People have grown tired of the establishment’s mess. As someone who is gay, atheist, disabled, black, and an “American untouchable” I sure as fuck am. This is why Bernie is so popular, and that’s why Trump crushed Hillary (despite his “anti-establishment” rhetoric being bullshit, but by this point people will cling to anything/anyone that even just says they’re anti-establishment). Time to toss the Clintonista DLC shit aside and get on the main line to real progress.
Why the hell do you care about matching funds?
Sounds like you just wanted to ride the fence and then get to feel superior regardless of the result. I guess that’s one kind of citizenship…
Maybe matching funds might do something. Maybe not. Interesting to see anyway.
If my vote would have made a difference, I would have voted for Clinton of course. I’m not a moron.
My bolding.
I wish the issue had in fact been that those states were red. Of course that wasn’t really the problem–if it had been Sanders would’ve disavowed his own victories in Kansas and Idaho, Utah and West Virginia, Alaska and Oklahoma, none of which had a prayer of going in the general election for Sanders, Clinton, or anyone else without an R beside his or her name.
No, the problem with those Southern states wasn’t the color red…it was a different color, as hinted at by EddyTeddyFreddy upstairs. And given that Sanders felt comfortable saying that the south didn’t count, you don’t need to look much further for reasons why he received less than a quarter of African American votes.
(Well, I think there were several other reasons, and of course the trend was well under way before he made that remark. But the comment displays a mindset that doesn’t speak well of the man.)
DoggyDunbit, I happen to sympathize more with the OP than with your overall message, but it was a pleasure reading your post — important observations, entertainingly stated.
Thank you for spelling out how stupid that is.
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Duverger’s Law.
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matching funds already have happened and did nothing. I don’t see evidence you’re not a moron.
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The progressives will be absorbed and marginalized by the Democrats. You all have no alternatives.
Okay, but why?
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Progressives are democrats.
I actually think that was a conspiracy by the GOP to do a hostile takeover of the Reform Party and then kill it. Pat Buchanan did suspiciously little with his campaign, while his sister Bay was a high level operative in the Bush campaign. Very fishy.
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why not?
Maybe they will next time. Who knows? Interesting to see.
Doggydunnit, in what universe does a candidate who gets three million fewer votes “crush” their opponent?
Looks like I’m stuck with people like you in my Democratic Party, and you’re stuck with people like me. Rest assured that I will continue to do my best to make sure candidates like Bernie (and Warren, etc.)are not nominated. You will do the opposite. So we’ll see what happens!
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