I know, Biden takes campaign contributions from corps, thus he is a “corporate whore”. Let me explain. In order to win, you need money. You have two sources- individuals and corporations (Pacs are funded by one or the other).
Now the GOP gleefully takes money from both. But if we have a "purity test’ that the Dem candidate has to cut off half the source of donations- he/she will lose. Period. It is impossible to win without that money. Now, that’s both sad and bad- but it is the way it is.
No one is saying “don’t fight it out”: we want some solid hard hitting debates- *on the issues
Not on who said nice things about a fellow senator when the man died- because you know- that just what you do if you are a gentleman. Not on who took money from the “big banks”- because if you dont- *you lose. * No “purity tests” because the only person who could possibly pass all of those things is can’t possibly win the genral election.
On the issues. No negative campaigning, no attack ads. Tell us why your stance on the issues is better than the other candidates- and why you are more electable.
I am not ruling anyone out. Sure, I dont like Harris’s stance on a couple things, but even that being said- i said she’d be nice to balance out someone like Biden.
The democrats do all the heavy lifting when it comes to helping the republicans win with this stupid bickering. He will get re-elected in no small part thanks to the democrats’ fetish of tearing each other down.
And no, I’m not saying don’t criticize/discuss issues but I mean REAL ISSUES AND POLICIES, those are fair game and should be debated. Democrats feeling forced to apologize for stupid jokes is only hurting the image of the entire party which desperately needs those independent votes.
So even if this were true (I’ll get that in a second), I still don’t understand this logic. How does this work, exactly? Is there some non-trivial demographic who won’t care about republican attack ads, will care about far milder democratic in-fighting, and isn’t 100% in the tank against Trump already? How does that work, exactly? Because all the stuff that would come up in the primary is almost certainly going to come up in the general election. And if any of it is, in fact, harmful for a candidate, then it should be out in the open before our options are “that candidate or Trump”.
But I really don’t think it’s true. What we’re looking at isn’t mean-spirited sniping over jokes or unfair smears. We’re mostly dealing with people’s records. Kamala Harris was a cop who hurt a lot of vulnerable people and doesn’t seem to care. Beto O’Rourke is a charismatic empty shell with no policy proposals and a fairly conservative legislative record (plus he’s taken a fair bit of money from oil companies, which is kind of a big fucking problem). Joe Biden is an unapologetic centrist corporatist with an abominable record on banking and civil rights who accepted ten times more than I make in a year to stump for a republican in 2018. These aren’t unfair or unreasonable things to criticize when talking about who’s going to lead the party going forward. We need someone inspirational, who can win a fight with a great deal of systematic disadvantages (the electoral college, voter disenfranchisement, the media’s obsession with both-sidesism, the fox news propaganda campaign, etc.).
Let’s just say, hypothetically, we don’t have all these fights. Joe Biden coasts through the primary on the back of his charming “Ol’ Uncle Joe” persona. Nobody calls him on his past. He gets the nomination. Then, in the general election, we find out that he can’t really call Trump out as a plutocrat because… oh, wait, Biden is in deep with the banks. And he can’t really call Trump out as a racist, because not two decades ago, Biden gave a loving eulogy to Strom Frickin’ Thurmond. And he can’t call Trump out as a misogynist, because, well… He can’t really call Trump out for warmongering because he voted for Iraq. How do you think that election goes?
These fights are important and necessary to prevent that kind of nightmare scenario.
DrDeth- I appreciate the comments about the realities of campaign finance, but that isn’t what I was getting at.
Delaware is sort of the Cayman Islands of the mainland. 50% of all US corporations are “headquartered” there, for tax shelter reasons. Not sure what to do about it, but it is not a model for the country.
Joe supported ending Glass-Steagal. I don’t want to destroy banks and businesses yanno, but that was an awful idea, helped set us up for the financial crisis, you know the story.
Joe was big on the anti crime policies that led to the mass incarceration of minorities. Sure, punish crime, but a racist justice system is a fucking abomination that makes me want to puke tears.
The candidates are all flawed, and they always will be. I think Joe’s are worse than many others’, and not because of campaign money.
Uncle Joe doesn’t call out Trump as a plutocrat. He calls out Trump as a corrupt, incompetent, misogynist, dissembling schmuck. Then it doesn’t matter if Joe took money from Acme, Inc.
Ta da.
[ETA: No, I don’t necessarily support Biden. I’m just saying, let’s not fight the wrong battles.]
Beto- no the fact that he took money from oil companies is NOT a big fucking problem. It can even be a good thing. Oil companies are part of America, they rule our cars, heat our homes and give lots of people jobs. They are not evil. This is a fucking purity test. And saying that no one can take donations from corps means the Dems will lose. Period.
Biden= purity tests.
No, Biden gave a eulogy to a coworker who he had worked for for years. You dont say bad things about a man in a eulogy. By no means does this mean Biden cant attack anyone on racism, because Biden has a clean record on racism.
wow, and a GOP hit youtube - that’s the reason he can’t call Trump out as a misogynist? Nope.
Voted for iraq? So did everyone else but Bernie. That doesnt make him a warmonger.
Purity tests. No one will pass them, thus everyone will lose.
Biden also stressed Thurmond’s opinion changes, how that ancient man came to change his racist ways, his support for extending the Voting Rights Act, establishing a Martin Luther King Jr. holiday and Thurmond’s work with reading programs for black students.
Thurmond was indeed a racist- but he mellowed and changed in his last years.
But you know, who really cares about a eulogy? Well, the Russians trolls and GOP hate spewers dug it it in the hopes- clearly met here on these pages- that Dems would spread it around.
Biden is the leader in the polls. Expect to see lots of shit tossed at him. But** YOU** can control how much of the Kremlin Krap and GOP hate you spread.
If Biden falls from #1, trust me, they will turn on whoever is next. We have to be vigilant and not spread their shit.
It’s okay to be authentic, but I’m not convinced that the rust belt states that Hillary lost are going to vote for Bernie Sanders or even Kamala Harris. Most of the swing states are moderate at best, and even moderate right.
I can see how someone who votes with Trump only 30-35% of the time (Beto O’Rourke) wins over the political center, but I don’t see how someone who votes with Trump only 14-15% of the time (Sanders, Harris, Booker, Warren) does that. I think Harris and Booker have enough political instincts to shift their rhetoric and tone a bit, but Bernie’s already proven that he’ll die on his own sword. If the economy remains relatively strong, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Trump blow-out if Bernie wins.
The problem is, voting with Trump 14-15% of the time seems to be how you win the Democratic party over, and that could be a problem in the general.
They paint him as a “champion of the sordid compromises of the past.” Some of it maybe doesn’t stick- he voted for NAFTA, and is therefore responsible for the loss of manufacturing jobs? :dubious: But taken altogether, one can’t help questioning if Biden is the best candidate or would make the best leader.
Talking about these things is not going to collapse the Democratic effort, and not talking about these things will never, ever keep them secret. There is a fight on for the immense power that goes with the office of POTUS, and we are all invested in it. To call for “no fighting” in this instance strikes me as, frankly, ridiculous. To beat Trump we are going to need someone who can win a fight, because that is what they are going to get.
Also, I promote ignoring any argument in the form of, “:eek: Don’t go too far left!” Who cares how “left” or “right” a policy is? It is for Fox News derpaholics to oversimplify things to the point that more “right” = best, without even chewing on the details. What matters is if a policy solves a problem and is practical in the context of everything else. So, Medicare for all, maybe with a modest deductible? Gotta admit, it gets healthcare to everybody. If it can be done, “left” is of exactly zero concern. Now, how about socializing the means of production? The problem isn’t that it is “left”, but that it is a terrible idea for a host of reasons. Same with arguments like, “the government always has to shrink!” The country is always growing, and the government needs to be big enough to address the problems it faces Let’s not be dumb. Let’s leave the derp to the propagandists.
So far I think probably every Dem candidate can beat Trump. Let’s let them duke it out and see who comes out on top.
And why are all these anti-biden articles coming out now? Because he’s the tops in the polls.
It’s gonna be harder than you think. Trump has a rock solid bases and a huge war chest. Not to mention he doesnt have to worry about mud slinging from his own party.
Why do trump’s campaign job for them? Leave the mudslinging to the GOP (and the Kremlin).
Trump thrives on mud. Throw mud on him and he just kind of absorbs it. And he can blast mud in all directions. Kind of like a comic book character.
Whichever dem wins is going to have to deal with that. I DO think that, proportionately, more mud is already baked in to Joe Biden than anybody else. Mud that, if slung by Trump, will look hysterically hypocritical and open to instant retort. Has Trump ever plagiarized? I think so! Trump can’t criticism Biden on ANYTHING related to money, women, creepiness, or being unfair to blacks and other minorities. His surrogates can try that, but not Trump himself. That means Trump can only focus on eccentric stuff, like Beto eating dirt or writing about killing children as a teen. Pocahontas. Etc. He’s VERY effective at that too.
Throw mud on any of the relative no-names, and it’s going to show up, big-time.