I say clone Collina.
Right. So because football fans go insanely nuts over a child’s game that makes it great? Sorry, but when a player gets assassinated for an own-goal, it’s time for everyone to take a step back, relax a bit and get a grip on reality a bit more. If you’re going to suffer a coronary over something, do it over something that actually matters in the grand scheme of things.
<tt>If you’re going to suffer a coronary over something, do it over something that actually matters in the grand scheme of things</tt>
A bit off topic I’m afraid, but exactly who gets to determine that?
And for all the bum raps football has gotten over the years, violent incidents are few and far between. The incident with the Colombian player caused consternation the world over, but it is no more indicative of the regular fan, than those who go out, pillage and burn whole city blocks after winning a title in American sports.
And let’s not even get into the multitude of incidents involving American professional athletes, which are thankfully not reflected in the world of footy.
Interesting topic, even if it doesn’t belong in this thread.
<tt>If you’re going to suffer a coronary over something, do it over something that actually matters in the grand scheme of things</tt>
A bit off topic I’m afraid, but exactly who gets to determine that?
And for all the bum raps football has gotten over the years, violent incidents are few and far between. The incident with the Colombian player caused consternation the world over, but it is no more indicative of the regular fan, than those who go out, pillage and burn whole city blocks after winning a title in American sports.
And let’s not even get into the multitude of incidents involving American professional athletes, which are thankfully not reflected in the world of footy.
Interesting topic, even if it doesn’t belong in this thread.
Well, I don’t know if I could come up with an exampe, but I think what Neurotik meant to say was that bad decisions have cost the better team the game before.
And it bites. Oh man, it sucks.
In 1992, Marco van Basten was flagged for offside twice in the semifinals against Denmark during the European Championships in Sweden. Both calls were off by at least three meters each. The score was 2-2 after full play, and Holland lost on penalties. Denmark went on to win the championship, having not even qualified the normal way, but being granted a wild card at the last moment because Yugoslavia was disallowed to compete because of the war. Was I mad at the Danish team?
Not at all. They couldn’t help the wrong offside decisions.
In 1994, Holland lost the quarterfinals of the world cup in the US to Brazil. Both Bebeto’s and Romario’s goal were scored from an offside position. Holland fought back to 2-2, and were beaten in the last stages by an excellent free kick from Branco. Fair and square. Not the Brazilians fault. Brazil went on to win the cup, as we all know.
And don’t even get me started on 1974. 
Dude, I know how you feel right now, trust me, I do. Especially, I’m a veteran when it comes to seeing your team knocked out of the tournament on penalties. Count 'em: 1992 EC (semis), 1996 EC (quarter finals), 1998 WC (semis), and 2000 EC (semis). All on penalties, with a few disallowed goals during regular play tossed in.
I KNOW.
Vilifying the other team is bad sportsmanship, and a disgrace to the game. Period.
Neutronik, one more thing for you. Describing “soccer” as a “child’s game” pretty much disqualifies you for this discussion. It’s a game that matters a lot in a lot of countries around the world. If you don’t care for it, fine - but then kindly keep out when passionate fans exchange their viewpoints.
I didn’t mean my description of (you’ll notice I referred to it as football and not as soccer, despite your “quotation”) football as a child’s game as a slight to football. I think baseball is a child’s game. I think basketball is a child’s game. In fact, when you get down to it, most professional sports are really just children’s games played at an extremely high level. I enjoy watching football. I am a passionate baseball and basketball fan here in the US. I get excited when the Lakers win and get disappointed when they lose (you should have seen my dance around the bar when Horry sunk the last second 3 to win game 4). I understand cheering for your team and arguing calls, etc.
HOWEVER…when you see RedFury spewing the amount of viciousness and pure hate over what is, in the end, a child’s game something is wrong. I’d say the same thing about someone who gets that upset about any professional sport.
What makes it worse is that he vilifies the wrong target. FIFA deserves heaps of scorn. The refs probably do, too. But the S. Korean team? Come on.
Two more things before I’m done:
- That’s exactly what I was trying to say, Coldfire
- I know acts of violence aren’t normal for football fans. And I know worse has happened (hell, the Raiders were in my city for several years). If we were going to discuss fan behavior at Raiders’ games, I would say the same thing about taking things too far over a child’s game.
- Hi Opal.
Hmmm… that’s a good question, and I’m not really sure how to answer it…
non-native may have to come and correct me if I’m wrong… but here is how I see it (based on the limited conversations that I have had with Koreans about this topic in the past few days):
WARNING! Vast generalizations ahead!
Koreans do not see the irony here because they cannot see how the two things have anything whatsoever to do with each other. A large part of the anger over the Kim/Ohno controversy (my opinion here, mind!) was due to the fact that Ohno is American. There is a lot of anti-American sentiment here for various reasons, and Koreans really took it to heart when Ohno was awarded the medal after Kim was disqualified… in fact, the word “Ohno” is now Korean slang (at least at my university, anyways) for “cheater.” The two soccer games in question had nothing to do with America, so no one here seems to think anything about it.
As to whether Koreans acknowledge that there were some questionable calls in the games against Spain and Italy, I couldn’t say… none of my Korean friends are really sports fans, and so none of us know enough about soccer to look at the plays in question and speak to the fairness/unfairness of the calls. They ARE aware, however, that there is some controversy over the last two games… but they don’t seem to really care that much. Their attitudes seem to be that Spain and Italy are poor losers and crybabies.
Another factor that we have to consider is the huge importance that the World Cup has to Koreans this year. Co-Hosting the games with Japan is really seen as a validation of Korean statehood… especially with the Korean team doing so well. Korea is all grown up now, and ready to play with the rest of the world in sports, in politics, in economics, etc. Remember that Korea, only a couple of years ago, was on the verge of total bankrupcy and had to be bailed out by the IMF… a major blow to Korean self-confidence. This is a country that has a long history of being invaded by various parties, ruled by foreigners and despots, and their national ego is pretty frail…
Koreans are usually a pretty argumentative, politically fractured people, but the World Cup has really brought the entire country together for one cause… and it’s nice for me to see that.
(all of the above is my opinion, based on 7 years of experience living in Seoul, and my incomplete understanding of the Korean psyche… heck, half the time I don’t know where Astrogirl is coming from! non-native, if I have unfairly represented Korean feelings, please correct me!)
Having said all that; the game against Germany is tonight!
GO KOREA!! Ooooooo, pil-sun Corea! OOOOOOO, pil-sun Corea!!
Tae-Han Min-Guk! (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!) Tae-Han Min-Guk! (clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!)
[sup]but I hope the officiating is fair![/sup]
Well, it looks like the fairytale ended for Tae-Han Min-Guk today. Germany won by efficient, if a bit boring, play. Ballack scored the winning goal, but won’t play the final because he’s collected two cards throughout the tournament. That’s gotta be bitter, too.Thanks for the clarification, Neurotik, it makes a lot more sense now. And yeah, you called it “football”. My bad.
I only watched the first half, the refereeing seemed fairly neutral, at least not as biased as normal. I’ll have more data on rewatching the whole game tonight.
The officiating was good. South Korea actually had a bad offside call against them, but both play continued at full speed and Kahn covered the ball so even if it hadn’t been called it wouldn’t have been a goal.
I have to admit I was rooting for Germany, but I won’t spoil it by saying if I’m happy or not. Two gift victories is quite enough for me. I don’t blame Korea for the officiating, but there needs to be some credibility restored. I’ll also be perfectly honest at how upset I was that Italy was eliminated.
Korea has played well, but they really shouldn’t have made it out of the Round of 16.
Coldfire,
Thanks for the reply. With you being a Dutch fan, I know you’re no stranger to heartbreak. I was a big fan of Cruyff and his magical Ajax teams of the 70’s as well as the Oranje. And not to revive old wounds, but to this day I think that if he’d made the trip to Argentina, you guys wouldn’t be in the same boat as us: “best teams never to have won a WC”
Not that I need to go back that far looking for wounds anyway, seeing as you’ve had to dump Van Mal back to those Nou Camp pretenders after he did what he does best: destroy all talent in sight – thanks, BTW, as Madrid fan, we couldn’t ask for nicer present. Haven’t seen a bigger ego this side of Ali. Too bad it doesn’t work with footy.
After watching this mockery of a WC, with some of the worst football in history on display, one realizes how much a team like Holland really means in the international scene.
Best of luck in Portugal '04…till you run into La Furia anyway!
And yes, no to worry, we will both be there.
Neurotik
Stick to baseball and basketball then. Obviously, your sensitivities and political correctness are not geared for such an international game as ours.
What you call “viciousness and hate” I call “passion”…and it’ll be there to the day I die. But make no mistake, I hate no one over footy.
As for today’s game, what had to happen two games ago, did. With fair refereeing, the Koreans are what they are…a well organized and physically fit team with a big heart and limited footballing skills. I expect they’ll keep qualifying out of their region, as only Japan and Iran compete, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before they get this far again. Not in my lifetime anyway.
Trust Brazil will bring some measure of restitution to all football starved fans. This tournament has done nothing to their quell their appetite.
Coldfire,
Thanks for the reply. With you being a Dutch fan, I know you’re no stranger to heartbreak. I was a big fan of Cruyff and his magical Ajax teams of the 70’s as well as the Oranje. And not to revive old wounds, but to this day I think that if he’d made the trip to Argentina, you guys wouldn’t be in the same boat as us: “best teams never to have won a WC”
Not that I need to go back that far looking for wounds anyway, seeing as you’ve had to dump Van Mal back to those Nou Camp pretenders after he did what he does best: destroy all talent in sight – thanks, BTW, as Madrid fan, we couldn’t ask for nicer present. 
Haven’t seen a bigger ego this side of Ali. Too bad it doesn’t work with footy.
After watching this mockery of a WC, with some of the worst football in history on display, one realizes how much a team like Holland really means in the international scene.
Best of luck in Portugal '04…till you run into La Furia anyway!
And yes, no to worry, we will both be there.
Neurotik
Stick to baseball and basketball then. Obviously, your sensitivities and political correctness are not geared for such an international game as ours.
What you call “viciousness and hate” I call “passion”…and it’ll be there to the day I die. But make no mistake, I hate no one over footy.
As for today’s game, what had to happen two games ago, did. With fair refereeing, the Koreans are what they are…a well organized and physically fit team with a big heart and limited footballing skills. I expect they’ll keep qualifying out of their region, as only Japan and Iran compete, but it’ll be a cold day in hell before they get this far again. Not in my lifetime anyway.
Trust Brazil will bring some measure of restitution to all football starved fans. This tournament has done nothing to their quell their appetite.
Pardon the double post. Server overload. Seems to happen a lot lately.
They don’t make a :rolleyes: big enough. But I think that everything that can be said on this topic between us two has been said. So let’s walk away in peace.
Coldie…I completely forgot what I was going to say to you after my post got lost. But it was nice. 
I suggest the lot of us get together for beers. Non-native is buying, since his team came the furthest. Then we can bitch about what an asshole Louis van Gaal is, while watching the finals and cursing at Neuville for yet another fake dive. 