Ok, I will accept that GB isnt worse than us, but it’s close, and on the way.
Yes, we need some sort of UHC. Biden has a plan for that. It’s a baby step, sure, but it’s a step. UHC isnt far left, we need it. But sanders plan* was* radical.
It wasn’t radical. It was rational. But context matters, and it was radical in context of what American society is prepared to accept today. You’re right about seeing Biden as a step in the right direction, instead of an outright enemy of progressive ideas.
The American left, for all it’s bluster, hasn’t organized a decent “Resist” rally in ages. Hell, if we are going to use other nations as models of better civic involvement and governance, we should look to France. Those cheese eaters will have a national strike at the suggestion that lunch break should be reduced from 2 hours to 1. Honestly, the American left doesn’t deserve its epithet.
College far leftists represent what, about 0.03 percent of the population? Far more people, by many orders of magnitude, do not want a far left leader. Why should the democrats cater to a handful of campus hipsters at the expense of the majority of democratic voters, or potential democratic voters.
Again, more people voted for Biden than Bernie. Far more people would vote for Biden over–well, I have no idea who you have in mind. Also, whatever you say about electoralism it’s the only way to get people into positions where they have any power at all. Talking about class consciousness may lead to an edifying discussion at the university coffee shop, but it does jack all towards improving anyone’s life. Union organizing is fine, but it’s not going to do much if the legislatures are hostile towards unions. Also, just out of curiosity, what unions have you been organizing?
Bernies plan went far beyond what any other nations plan did. It also would have put tens of thousands out of work, bankrupted a entire industry, and forced Doctors to work for the govt or go into cosmetic surgery or similar. It is the definition of "radical’.
Look, we need UHC. GB’s National Health Service or Canada’s system would be fine. But sander’s plan goes far beyond either. That makes it radical.
Just because we need UHC , it doesnt mean our only choice is bernies gold plated cadillac plan. If you need a car to get to work, a Chevy or a Honda is fine, you dont have to get a Mercedes-maybach @ $200k. That’s a false dilemma.
I always assumed Bernie’s plan would end in compromise resembling GB/Canada/Scandinavia models. Shoot for the stars and land on the moon kind of thing.
Sure. But it was still radical. Bidens plan is baby steps. I think we need bigger steps, but even baby steps is something.
If Bernie won the primary, would I owe him my vote? Would I owe my vote to a candidate nominated by people who admit they don’t really give a shit about the Democratic party? But I would still have voted for Bernie if he won. The thing is he was never going to win.
Bernie does not poll better than Biden in the swing states. If he polled better than Biden in those swing states, he would be the nominee. This election isn’t about some historic opportunity to violently jerk American politics to the left and elect a socialist. For most people that vote in the primary, this was about picking the person with the best chance of beating Trump.
I’ve held my nose in every election except 2008/2012.
If Biden does something to affirmatively drive away liberal voters then sure. But if he is driving them away by not being Bernie Sanders, then the left is to blame.
Then how in the world did Bernie lose? You think maybe some of your unsupported assertions might be incorrect?
Because purple voters can vote for Trump. We can’t really make the argument that they either vote for Bernie or Trump will win.
Go ahead and grieve. And I’ll hold your hand if you want me to but Bernie was never going to win. He just wouldn’t carry enough swing states.
I don’t think we could win a general election with anything much more radical than what Biden is proposing. None of that more radical stuff would have made it through congress.
No, I think the far left exists regardless of what the republicans say. I don’t agree with them on where that line is drawn but the line exists.
Yes if you are talking about white countries.
There are a ton of rich muslim countries where Bernie’s politics would not be welcome. There are a bunch of wealthy asian countries where most of Bernie’s politics would not be that popular.
By America’s standards he is about as far left as you can get on the national stage.
It is also Biden’s position.
Universal healthcare is not what makes him far left.
You will not get there short of armed revolution. It is much more likely that the leftists in your social group will change their minds as they grow older. What? You think you’re the first generation that wanted to radically change things?
This is a democracy. All you have to do is convince people like me to agree with you. Good luck.
It’s not that it can’t happen. I agree with you guys on state school tuition but you have not convinced me that we should have open something approaching admissions at those state colleges.
To some extent, some of them were hoping for a fluke like the racists got on the right with Trump. They want to try and shoot the moon with similarly disastrous consequences if they miss.
Graduate student worker’s union, currently in bargaining. Been getting some large attention especially in the wake of the UC system strikes. I’ve also been involved in helping get our local faculty union off the ground, and peripherally involved in an undergraduate student union as well as some fast food and grocery worker unions (especially with the hazards of Coronavirus happening). Also the IWW in my area but that’s largely because they organize some of the food service unions here.
And no, it’s not just university students, even grad students. Most of my friends are of this persuasion too and are often retail workers, call center workers, a few sex workers, etc. Largely queer, since Millenial and Zoomer queer people in particular are, IME, incredibly likely to be somewhere on the DemSoc/Communist spectrum. In fact, I came to leftism far more via queer groups than I did via my union or university (which I’m leaving come summer).
Eh, that’s one of the irons in the fire that people legitimately prepare for, but not my personal preferred option. I don’t see it mobilizing, personally. Though with the current shitstorm who knows what’s about to unfold afterwards.
Yes yes “Oh I’ve grown older and wiser and that’s why I’m turning you in”. I think some will stop, but the Millenial and Zoomer LGBT crowd is very aggressively communist, or at least DemSoc, likely largely brought on by the recession, and the impending fallout from COVID isn’t likely to make views on capitalism any rosier. Unlike Boomers who got to live through a pretty big period of economic prosperity, Millenials basically got a recession followed by a gig economy followed by a giant crash, it’s unlikely to play out the same way as the historical trajectory that ended up giving former hippies enough success under a capitalist system they came to defend it. Not to mention we don’t have the constant propaganda of the cold war bearing down on us wrt anti-communist rhetoric. It’s possible most of us will stop being leftists, but it’s a much, much different economic and social situation.
Like, oh any of this? (post that’s been getting copied around)
About that list of gripes against Biden: some appear legitimate, i.e. his past coziness with lobbyists and remaining silent (at best) about family members getting lucrative positions for which they were unqualified based on being named Biden.
Others are…questionable. Accusing Biden of joining Trump in backing a “right-wing coup” in Venezuela leaves out just a few salient facts as noted by the N.Y. Times, which include Guaidó’s being recognized as the legitimate President of Venezuela by more than 50 nations.
“The countries — including Austria, Britain, Denmark, France, Germany, the Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Spain and others — joined the United States, Canada, Australia and much of Latin America in withdrawing recognition of Mr. Maduro’s government and acknowledging Mr. Guaidó, the opposition leader, as the interim president pending elections.
Mr. Maduro easily won re-election last year, despite the collapsing economy, endemic corruption and repression in Venezuela, in a vote that his opponents and international observers said was heavily rigged.”
Other than hard-core leftists, people generally don’t view opposition to Maduro as a “coup attempt”.
Most disappointing and concerning about Biden is his evident lack of any firm convictions, which are routinely discarded once he perceives them as political liabilities.
This of course makes him a typical politician. Whether the people who voted in Trump are still hyped against picking a typical politician for President remains to be seen.
I’m not sure if you’re aware of who has all the guns. It’s not left, it’s not even the right, it’s not the civilians at all.
This is true, these are different economic times and society makes adjustments from time to time. It wasn’t the parents of the boomers that voted in FDR 3 times in a row. It was the folks who lived through the great depression. The Greatest Generation:
"This generation experienced much of their youth during rapid technological innovation (radio, telephone) amidst growing levels of worldwide income inequality[7][8][9] and a soaring economy.[10][11][12] After the Stock Market crashed, this generation experienced profound economic and social turmoil, and eventually World War II.
While Tom Brokaw and others extol this generation for supporting and fighting World War II, American historian and sociologist Harvey J. Kaye writes that in addition to ending isolationism, most Americans of the Greatest Generation wanted “to curb the power of capital, create economic growth and development, end poverty, and ‘enable people to advance themselves.’”[13]"
So maybe you guys are the next greatest generation.
I was talking about what he does from here on out. He is the likely nominee, in part based on his record and frankly the list is cherry picked, disingenuous and seems to have a very low threshhold for why you shouldn’t vote for Biden. Voting to fund physical border security in 2006 is not “Voting to build border walls” as it is understood in today’s political discourse.
Well, you’ve got heart, kid. Come back when you’re 40 or so, we’ll find out if you have any brains.
I really hope progressives who aren’t planning to vote for Biden reconsider given the fact that Trump is currently stealing medical supplies from states and we’re all sitting on the jury to decide what the consequences should be.
I read a thread like this, e.g. the confused and bitter post quoted below, and it makes me weep for America.
Is this the same nation who organized the Invasion of Normandy in 1944, and later rescued Europe with Truman’s ‘Marshall Plan’? The same nation who landed a Man on the Moon? Unbelievable.
That whole huge post seems like Trump dirty trickster SPAM… part of the next wave of “walk away” BS. I said I’d support the nominee, and I will.
Nope.
Heh. That’s pretty much what I thought. I’m sure every Amazon warehouse worker, every Walmart employee, every assembly line person at Boeing, they are all comforted by your taking time from your discussions of Habermas and Gramsci to play act as someone who is doing something relevant.
Fuck you, you smarmy supercilious ageist creep. But hey, I’m sure the person Trump appoints to replace Ruth Ginsburg will be ever so rewarding of your ideological purity. And will support trans rights with a passion.