Yeah, I remember a lot of comments in 2016 from people who met her is small group settings - they were generally impressed/surprised by how genuinely nice and empathetic she seemed. She apparently couldn’t project that in large gatherings (and the 20-years of hate/misogyny she had to overcome was undoubtedly a major part of that).
To characterize my attitude toward Ms. Clinton (whom I never refer to as “Hillary”) as “hateful” seems a bit unfair. I definitely would have preferred her presidency over that of Доналд Трамп. I am deeply disappointed that she lacked what we needed to overcome that catastrophe, but “hating” is something Republicans do (and then project upon others because it is the only emotion they understand besides lust).
I don’t think the characterization is unfair, but whatever; if you say it’s not hate, I’ll believe you. I still think your whatever you’re doing is only supported by hindsight.
Yeah, that’s the impression I get also. And nobody talks about that extreme charisma level which often works backwards for me; so my guess is that I’d be fine with her in person.
My closest chance was when she was running for Senator; she hit every county in the state, including the ones with tiny population, and she spent an afternoon in my county seat talking with whoever showed up. But I couldn’t get there that day.
I think she lost the primaries to Obama in significant part because she didn’t do the equivalent – which I think was because she didn’t take him seriously; she assumed she’d get the Democratic nomination for the asking, until it was too late. And I don’t think she took Trump seriously until it was too late – but almost nobody took Trump seriously until it was too late. The thread on these boards, which I think was titled ‘this time, Trump says he’s running’, treated him IIRC mostly as a joke until very late in the campaign.
If the voters had taken him seriously in the swing states, he’d have lost. And by those last few days, after the Comey emails drop, if you were paying attention it did look scary close – but it was also too late for Clinton to do much. I’d blame Comey’s timing, and the swing state voters who didn’t bother to show up. Yes, almost anything could have tipped that close election; and Clinton not being Obama or not being Bill, as a campaigner, might have been that edge – but so could lots of other things.
Argh, I know exactly what you mean. Smarmy, overbearing. pleasantness that you can feel hiding a cold dark soul. I’ve met a few people like that…fortunately, very few. Always surprises me to see people fall for it and end up sorry.
Same here, couple of ocassions. A completely fine and cromulent person and politician. Felt perfectly at ease with her. Sure, she was no Bill but who was.
Too late being November 9. 2016.
The 20-20 hindsight for the Clinton Campaign was that she spent time trying to win over pink states rather than locking down the swing states, effectively going for a landslide rather than securing a victory. But again this was 20-20 hindsight. If you believe that you’re win is secure you want to expand your coat tails and your mandate so that your political position is stronger when you take office. So you don’t go back to Michigan where the polls say you have a healthy 5 point lead, you go to Arizona where you’re down by 1 point.
I try to make an effort at avoiding actually hating people. When Ms Clinton’s name comes up, I feel disappointment that we have three dirtbags on the Supreme Court who really ought not be there, that a fuckwit like DeJoy is still working at murdering the Post Office, that net neutrality is an ongoing struggle. She would have been a far better choice to not fuck up the country. Yes, it is hindsight, but we saw it happening in real time (the Comey thing) and we watched her dropping the ball.
A name like Saint Ronnie fills me with animosity when it comes up, because he led this charge to the bottom (and he murdered my school-mate for no good reason). I try not to think much about the scumbag actor, but what I feel when I hear praise for him is as close to “hate” as I ever want to get, and nowhere close to what bland feelings Ms Clinton’s name evokes.
I didn’t take Trump seriously at first – but from the time it became clear Hillary was running, I was terrified that she would both get the nomination and lose the general election. That was because I knew enough people on whom the venom that had been spat at her for over twenty years had worked that I had some idea of the strength of that venom. I don’t think a lot of her supporters ever did. And I strongly suspect that Clinton herself, and most of the Democratic establishment, underestimated it. They thought she was a very strong candidate, because of her skills and her knowledge, which are and were considerable. But she wasn’t; and that was mostly because of that twenty-plus years of relentless attacks.
Yeah, part of the problem she had is summed up in the well-trod notion that you cannot reason someone out of a position they did not reason into – holding up her knowledge and experience could not dent the long-engineered antipathy among those who were listening to those messengers.
I see a lot of post-hoc reasoning here.
Clinton won the popular vote hands down but lost by thin margins in a handful of states. Joe Biden won by similarly thin margins in those states. The difference that time around seems to be the Trump factor, i.e. people knew exactly what they would be getting - and yet Trump still increased his overall vote total from 2016.
How that translates to a “weak” campaign or “underestimating” Trump I have no clue, because the actual results where it counted were incredibly similar but the coin flipped the other way.
It’s complete and utter bullshit that Ms. Clinton “fucked up” her campaign againt Tan the Conman. She won, she fucking won the popular election. That can’t happen if you’ve fucked campaign away. She ran a good campaign and the majority of voters agreed that she should be in the White House. Our asinine system is what put that asinine festering fistule of a traitor in office.
'Cause it was Hillary and no one likes her because of Reasons. She also threw the election to Trump either on purpose or because she’s … uh, Hillary and Reasons. It’s simple really she’s Hillary. 
Oh, and the absolute worst thing she had done–and this really sticks in the republicans’ craw–is that she actually practiced the Christianity they demand everyone, besides themselves of course, practice. She had the temerity, the gall to forgive someone who trespassed against her. And she’s a Democrat and a woman. Can’t be letting those commie dems get away with showing the pubbies up like that.
48% to 46% is not really “hands down”, as such. Individual-ONE got the same 46% in '20, but Joe the Candidate got just over 50%. Gore and Kerry both got around 48% – it seems as though a D needs to get more than that to win, even if it exceeds that of the R.
That’s still several million votes. Lies, damned lies, and statistics…
Whatever the case, the idea that Clinton ran a poor campaign is just bunk. It clearly wasn’t a perfect campaign and there were errors made (which is true for pretty much all major political campaigns) but that’s a far cry from this bizarre notion of major strategic missteps that’s come up in this thread.
It was a really dirty trick for TFG to play the “electoral college” card at the last second.
People keep using that word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
She was the only candidate the dems ever ran who could have lost to Trump. She got every vote any (D) candidate would have gotten, exactly 0 votes because she personally enthused anyone and several millions specifically against her.
Fair or not; She inspired so much hate that it was always going to be an uphill battle.
She was eminently qualified but given the decades long smear campaign, she played against a stacked deck and poorly at that. Somehow the “highlights” of her campaign were all terrible for her: the “deplorables” comment and Comey’s crap could have been handled better. A guy who can’t even walk down a ramp unaided managed to paint her as physically frail. She never tried to capitalize on Trumps weaknesses: Nobody likes to admit they’re racist or misogynistic. She could have done more to put attention there. His total lack of experience in public office, no concrete idea of who would be in his administration (the best people) She attacked none of that. She acted as if she just had to show up to win the thing; she almost did, sure, but she could have done much, much more.
I know full well what the word means. Did you not read the rest of the post?
(…) popular vote, (…) won, (…) ran a good campaign.
Only one of those is true, shame it is not a real thing.
She lost to Donald fucking Trump, a two bit conman, how can you even consider defending anything those losers did. They fucked up.
They fucked up the “deplorable” thing, they fucked up the Comey thing, what story did they spin in a competent manner?
They were playing catch-up the whole campaign.
Did they emulate and improve everything Obama did that worked well?
Show me an example of skillful spinning/politicking by Hillary’s campaign.
Show how they were not convinced they just had to show up.