In the Trump thoughts and prayers thread someone claimed that there wasn’t any/much? Misogyny towards Clinton in the 2016 election. I strongly vehemently disagree. One article with some examples
HIlary, from the first moment she appeared with Bill at the beginning of his first presidential run, has faced naked, unbridled, misogyny.
The right has hammered her from the very beginning, she’s “shrill” how about this? just a couple of the particular insults I remember being smirked about her by mostly male commentators. Some of this crap wasn’t even limited to the right wing either.
Most people who say they dislike her can’t even verbalize why they don’t like her. It was always the right trashing her for … well … not being male. They hated her for having the gall to be smart, powerful, and good at policy. All of that and most unforgivably female for dog’s sake!
The claim that people didn’t vote for her because they didn’t like her (which is a stupid reason to vote/not vote for anyone) is true on its face, however why they disliked her and how they were conditioned to dislike her is more to the point. And misogyny was the tool the right used to incite people to dislike her. In addition, people then and now are ripe for that sort of manipulation. This is true of any marginalized group. See LGBTQ+ people. The very fact that some/one? posters here claim that the campaign against her was not misogynistic illustrates my point.
I know right? That’s why it gets my back up when I hear/read nonsense that the campaign against her was not based on misogyny. I’m not a rabid fan of her or any other candidate (well, Katie Porter), but I get so pissed off with the crap this woman has endured for decades. grumble
I had to start a thread or risk hijacking the one I saw it in.
Of course there was plenty of misogyny directed against Ms. Clinton. The prime example was the way Tan the Conman kept standing behind her while she was talking during the debate, and, of course, interrupting her. And then she had the audacity to actually practice her professed faith in something that really was not their business in the first place. They despise her for forgiving her husband for infidelity, yet they look at Tan the Conman and believe he did nothing wrong with his affairs. Yep, it’s misogyny.
Misogynists routinely disclaim misogyny. Just like racists etc. Denial is an intrinsic part of bigotry.
Clinton is an admirable person and a rather poor politician. Her politics are … acceptable, in the US spectrum, which is from fascism to conservatism. But her delivery isn’t the greatest. Women politicians in the US have to be absolutely flawless and superb to compete against males representing the dregs of humanity. Just the way we roll.
The misogynistic hate campaign against Senator Clinton for decades was the clearest sign of the utter backwardness and lack of enlightenment on the part of American voters imaginable. I did not like her politics, voted against her when I could (other than in 2016 general election), and didn’t care for her personality but running against Trump, she presented a reasonable (or even sane) person with no choice but to vote for her enthusiastically, which I did and would do until the end of time.
For those of you posting in (or reading) this thread who don’t like Hillary but declare that your dislike is not based on her gender (and I believe you or at least believe you are sincere) WHY don’t you like her?
I’m not saying you should like her… but why the firm, unrelenting, year-after-year, non-misogynistic, pretty intense dislike?
I don’t see people feeling this way about, say, Nancy Pelosi who has (God bless her!) cast iron balls and isn’t afraid to use them. Or Liz Cheney who ran that committee hearing (again, God bless her!) like Attila the Hun. These are strong, opinionated, in-your-face women who apparently don’t trigger the the mass desire to assemble pitchforks, sacks of feathers, and buckets of tar.
I didn’t mean that NO ONE hates Nancy or Liz… surely you got my point? (Maybe you didn’t. Maybe I didn’t hammer it home enough… …)
The massive, across-the-board disdain for Hillary among non-fascists is special to her-- but it’s not based on her being an uppity woman, right – I’m trying to find out WHAT IT IS ABOUT HILLARY.
If you hate Hillary, tell me why. I want to understand.
ha! The argument from “he who denied it supplied it” otherwise known as the “argumentum ad Python”
No doubt there are some to whom that applies. There are far more who are accurate and honest in their denials and who have reasons for disliking a politician that are beyond identity characteristics.
To many Hilary was a dreadful choice, a poor politician and not a very decent person at all. All of which can be asserted without it having anything to do with her sex.
Anyone can dislike any politician on their actual (de)merits. That has nothing to do with those who hate groups of people and meanwhile deny that they are bigots. Which is, in my experience, the norm.
It would be helpful in your assessment of Clinton to provide actual real factual details. Merely saying “she is a horrible person” convinces no one of your lack of misogyny, or for that matter, hypocrisy.
For me… I am well left of her and her appalling stances on pretty much every issue.
That is pretty normal in many countries, but appears extremist in the USA.
I vote for a fairly centrist party in my country; that party would be considered far left in the USA. (to be fair, I bite my tongue and vote for them, because the other options are either further left or have some fascist leanings)
Yeah, there’s no evidence of the public record that she is a “horrible” person. I’d like to see what might make her “horrible.”
Certainly, in terms of politicians, she is way over to the “not horrible as a person” side of the spectrum.
Yeah, she’s not a smooth public speaker, certainly nowhere as smooth as her husband. That goes to the point made above that women politicians are held to very high standards and not allowed to have flaws.
Certainly, if nothing else, she should be admired for suffering decade upon decade of relentless nonsensical hatred and having persevered to the extent she has.
Yes I was the one who didn’t engage in that comment about Hillary to preserve the thoughts and prayers.
With that said I do feel that while people took issues with Hillary’s politics, it was far aggravated, and brought out far more venom because she was a woman who was doing it (the nerve of her, she should know her place).
I would expect the criticism to be far less if Hillary was a man as a woman is not suppose to be that forceful. Hillary really rubbed people the wrong way because of that. This made people come out against her and her issues far more then if proposed by just another lefty guy (who would be expected to do that).
So while she was challenged on politics, the reason she was challenged was because she was a woman, a man would have gotten a pass. Though externally, as a quick look, it would appear the reason for the objection would have been the issues. And that is why I think in the thoughts and prayers thread it was taken by that poster that the people didn’t like Hillary because of issues, not gender bias.
Even if there was misogyny (and assuming your claiming it was mostly Pubs), it in no way compares the the misogyny YOU DEMS showed Amy Klobuchar in her primary run. Seems like this thread is all about look at the thing you do and we never do the same (only worse).
Clinton was horribly unlikable and the real misogyny is cultural in that most insults directed at women are gender-based. Bill Clinton is an asshole. Hillary Clinton is a bitch. Slick Willy is a scumbag. Hitlery is a harpy. See the difference? I may be expressing my dislike for both but against Hillary it sounds misogynistic because our culture is misogynistic. How do we insult men? Call them a pussy because they are like women - inferior and weak ha ha ha. So maybe the issue is not about Pubs and Hillary but rather how society uses language.
Oh but you guys hated Klobuchar because how dare she act like a man.
ETA:
With that said I do feel that while people took issues with Hillary’s politics, it was far aggravated, and brought out far more venom because she was a woman who was doing it (the nerve of her, she should know her place).
I would expect the criticism to be far less if Hillary was a man as a woman is not suppose to be that forceful. Hillary really rubbed people the wrong way because of that. This made people come out against her and her issues far more then if proposed by just another lefty guy (who would be expected to do that).
Just to add for perspective, Hillary won the popular vote by 2.8 million. So while millions didn’t vote for her, overall she seemed more liked than disliked.
During the Honduran coup, she supported the efforts to keep the freely-elected president out of power. That extension of US imperialism in Latin America made my skin crawl.
And when her emails were being exaggerated, someone asked her about wiping servers, and she answered, “Like with a cloth?” That sort of snide pretense of ignorance doesn’t sit well with me.
I think she’s brilliant and savvy, but I also think she holds a lot of other folks in contempt, and advances a lot of neoliberal policies that I find repugnant.
…)
– I’m trying to find out WHAT IT IS ABOUT HILLARY.