asahiI’m not a green. I do get your other points though read on…
Look I really don’t want to argue the point, I posted my complaints mainly to counter the Niave Rube (head pat optional) narrative that has taken hold here. I’m reasonably sure between now and November The Don ewill say something particualarly vile enough to motivate me to vote aginst him. But that’s a shitty thing for the Democrats to be hoping for, and trust me mine is not an isolated complaint. I attended a wedding this weekend where it wasn’t quite the majority view, but it was a close second.
In case you’re interested, mostly black middle and working class people. There was a DNC consultant in the mix as well. The average age was probably 40. There was at least three Trump supporters as well.
So…let me get this straight. You hear all the heinous bullshit that comes out of Trump’s mouth/Twitterfingers, realize it’s bullshit, but just think “Oh, he didn’t mean it”? Or do you just really want to see the system burn? What could motivate any reasonably objective, non-racist person with an ounce of common sense to vote for this asshole?
“Not Hillary” doesn’t wash. Love her, hate her, call her whatever you like, she is CLEARLY the qualified one here, and Trump is not. Neither does party over country, which is what the vast majority of Republicans will end up prioritizing without the slightest amount of remorse.
If you tally ‘issues’ in some way that there are a lot of non-controversial items on your list, you can make any two candidates seem similar. But dismissing the fact that Sanders and Clinton are on opposite sides of issues like Wall Street influence on politicians, the prison-industrial complex (US is #1 in prisoners, yay!), Iraq war (one voted for, one against), and Patriot Act (one voted for, one against) through a trick of tallying up minor ‘issues’ that they agree on isn’t likely to convince anyone.
This is like coming up to someone and saying “Would you rather microwave this kitten, or deep fry it? No, those are the ONLY two choices, pick one.”
It’s weird how you want to hold people who weren’t interested in voting for Hillary all along responsible for Trump’s hypothetical win, but not the leadership of the Democratic Party who chose to use their power to force out a candidate who, by all projections, would beat Trump handily. If Hillary can’t motivate enough people to vote for her over trump, the fault is with her and her cronies running the party, not people honestly voting for their convictions.
Yes, some of the Democratic “leadership” were not friendly to New Democrat Bernie. How did they “force him out”? He didn’t get as many votes as Hillary did; those votes don’t come from the leadership. If not for the undemocratic caucuses, Bernie would have done worse.
Got a link to any of those projections predicting Bernie would have beat Trump?
Anyone voting Green (or Libertarian) out of honest convictions may be wrong–but not worthy of the same contempt as those voting “to send a signal.”
So your contention is that the Democratic party leadership had nothing to do with picking which candidate won?
No, because I don’t bother saving them - they’ve been posted to this board roughly 3945858 times already and I’m not willing to put in effort looking them up again, especially when your posts are based on accusations and emotional manipulation.
Oh look, more condemning people for voting for their convictions. This whole attitude of ‘we will put someone that we like but you don’t like, then try to guilt trip you if dare to vote for who you want instead of who we want’ is more than a little offputting. And it happens in EVERY election, not just this one with Trump.
Sorry, but that’s definitely not good enough when you make a statement of fact, then double-down with a claim that your so-called “fact” has been posted on this message board many, many times. If this “fact” is so damn easy to find, then show it to us. Where are these polls? Where have they been discussed on these boards?
It seems that the DNC may have tried to INFLUENCE who would be the nominee, but the PICKING was done by many millions of Democrats, who voted for Clinton by roughly a ten point margin.
There were certainly polls earlier this year showing Sanders doing better than Clinton against Trump, but I don’t think that any poll before the conventions on head-to-head matchups is worth the money paid for it – no matter who is shows winning.
Sanders didn’t really have an opponent who focused on beating him up during the primary. Yeah, Clinton made a few jabs, but she pulled an awful lot of punches. There is no doubt that Republicans would come after Sanders much harder, and frankly I think he would be extremely vulnerable to those attacks. I think the odds are fairly high that Clinton will beat Trump because she’s had the kitchen sink thrown at her for two decades. I think the odds of Sanders beating Trump after suffering attacks that he has no experience with, and that the American people have never heard, are more of a coin flip to maybe slight Trump edge.
Pointing at a poll taken in, say, April as evidence of what will happen in November is a very, very, very poor argument. But I assume that’s all you have, eh?
If you don’t like the direction the bus is headed, I totally respect that you will want to steer it in what you think is a better direction. But once its clear that the bus will not go in the direction you want, encouraging the bus to be driven over a cliff is not a responsible thing to do. It may be your conviction that you want to commit suicide, but don’t drag us down with you.
How about forgetting the kitten and considering “You can live for an indefinite time with decisions made by the Supreme Court justices that Hillary would choose, or ones who fit in with Trump’s ideas.”
Yeah, keep pretending that there are no legitimate reasons that someone wouldn’t want Hillary as president. They could’ve only been brainwashed by Fox News. There is no other possibility, as she is perfect.
I was actually completely neutral on Hillary Clinton until 2008. I had no reason to care about her. She was a senator that had little relevance to my life. Most of the mud slung against her really was witch hunts, including Benghazi.
It was all the sleazy shit in the 2008 primary campaign that started to sour me on her - her campaign essentially planted the seeds to start the birther movement, there was the “3am phone call” scare tactic type ads, etc.
I do think her husband and his movement ushered in third way “liberalism” that gutted any actual leftist policies or goals in the democratic party and made them just as much corporatist stooges as the republicans. That was the death of the party of FDR and LBJ. And it seems like she will solidify that trend beyond recovery. Clintonism is essentially the death of any sort of progressive movement in the democratic party.
I’m not even a “progressive” in most ways, but I do think that voice should be out there. But I think that voice is gone with the almost completely takeover of Clintonism in the democratic party. Now we have right wing corporatist and super right wing corporatist parties.
I despise pretty much all of you Clinton supporters. If you’re not playing the “there’s no legitimate reasons to dislike her, you just got brainwashed by Fox News!” card, you’re playing the “oh you can’t handle a powerful woman, eh, misogynist?!” card, or the “time to grow up, children, and give up your dreams of having someone sincere, now you’re forced to vote for her. it’s her turn.” card. In 2008, Obama’s supporters were so much more earnest and forthright and noble - Clinton’s supporters were slimy and partisan and condescending. It was part of what made me feel like I was doing the right thing by supporting him.
Anyway, I can keep listing off problems I have with her, if you want, but it’s really outside the scope of the thread. I didn’t start the thread to discuss the merits of disliking Clinton. But I have to say you sure do alienate people like me or all the other various people who might otherwise be persuaded to vote for her by being so condescending about it, and implying that no one could have any sort of valid reasons not to love her. Part of why it’s so difficult and repulsive to force myself into voting for her is because I really don’t want to be part of your club. I thought Obama’s club was largely good people. I feel like the Clinton advocates are not.
Donald Trump has no “ideas” regarding high jurisprudence. None. It is a subject of absolutely zero interest to him; his only interested in matters of legality is how to use the courts in his favor to win money from other people or keep money he has stolen. Those cases don’t get heard before the Supreme Court.
If Trump were President and Supreme Court vacancies popped up, he’d nominate the first person available who would get confirmed, since it would be a distraction from accumulating glory and money. He’d nominate Barack Obama if he thought it was be a painless confirmation process.
I’m a black dude, I’ve been hearing the republicans court racists for the entirety of my life, the only difference this year is the racist are out in the open instead of using dog whistles, big whoop. He can’t make them hate me any more than they already do, maybe they’ll act out more. Guess what, I probably won’t notice. I will be working too hard for too many hours.
She’s also clearly part of the team that screwed me and lots of working class and poor people over the last time they were in the White House. What’s that saying about doing the same thing but expecting a different result?
Thank you SenorBeef for making the points you did far more eloquently that I would have. I haven’t quite reached the level of despising Clinton supporters but they sure are pissing me off.
