Sorry to keep harping on it, but your casual shaking-dust-off-feet comment indicates you believe you’ve brought the truth to this community, not one person was willing to hear it, and you’re ready to move on. I’m still staggering under the load of that arrogance.
You know, it’s possible to learn as well as teach. Try it sometime.
What really bothers me His4ever is that you are sorry you made us angry. You are not questioning your interpretation of your deity’s message, much less your method of delivering it. Surely - given the prominence you choose to give your deity in your life - it is far more important that you understand your god and that you are doing his will than it is whether any other person on this planet believes in him or lives according to what you believe to be his word.
Given your “hellfire and brimstone” interpretation of the scriptures, I’m surprised that you aren’t concerned about whether the manner in which you evangelise is really in accordance with your god’s wishes or whether - in fact - it might displease him.
You have little reason to take note of what us atheists have said in this thread, but I sincerely hope that you’ll consider the words of your fellow Christians and at least consider the possibility that your interpretation of both your deity and the scriptures would benefit from some close scrutiny on your part.
No matter what the debate when people whose basic position is similar to your own don’t want you on their team, it’s time for some introspection.
Regarding your link:
I’m very, very afraid of God. He does appear to be quite wrathful at times. I don’t pretend to understand it. I hope he has mercy on me and forgives me. I pray that if he’s wrathful to anyone, the wrath is tempered with mercy. I pray that it’s not my own arrogance that even dares to ask that.
Don’t see how that translates into “Christians need to talk less about love, and more about hellfire.” If it’s true that the message has become skewed in recent centuries, I don’t think you, personally, are fit to correct it. Nor am I.
More people on this board believe in Hell than you might think. Make no assumptions. I’ll leave it to others to dissect the relative importance of delivering the message of love vs. the message of damnation.
(FWIW: I think we might be in agreement on one point: Man is sinful and needs redemption. Otherwise, why did Christ need to die? But this is a message that needs to be treated oh-so-delicately. I think you run roughshod over it, alienating orders of magnitude more than you reach. Please, leave this particular task to others.)
His4ever, I’ve said this before: if you’re only a Christian because you want to be “saved”, and not out of love of God and fellow man, then it’s not worth it.
That’s “cheap grace.”
I really wish His4Ever would finally depart this digital coil. I’ve been saving up a rousing rendition of “Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” for months now…
Kirk
No, no, she’s not a witch. If she was, she’d have to exorcise herself, or something. Or get Jack Chick to do it for her.
His4Ever wrote:
Perhaps He knows the hearts of those you have condemned as well, my dear.
After having read the multitude of Pit threads devoted to His4Ever (I rarely leave the Pit, so I have little first-hand experience of her forays into the other fora), I would say she’s that breed of religionite who is not actually looking to convert people by proselytization. The proselytizing is only a pretext for a smug, self-serving attitude. She’s not looking to achieve anything here than to feed her own ego; all us poor, misguided Heathens will go to hell, while her self-sacrificing martyrship will go on to sit at God’s side when the time comes.
Much like Jack Chick, really.
Conversion is not the real goal here. It would explain the refusal to back up her drive-bys and steadfast determination to not even begin to question her own beliefs in the face of all the Dopers who are valiantly trying to introduce the concept of reason and rationality to her. She wants to be superior, and can’t do that if forced to question that worldview which makes her superior.
At least, that’s my opinion; I could be wrong.
His4Ever, saying you’re sorry that we’re angry is yet another cheap cop out on your part, just as your “I’ll apologize because you want me too” was a few weeks ago. If you’re going to be sorry for something, be sorry that you have shown us a God of infinite cruelty, hatred, and harsh judgement, rather than one of kindness, love, and mercy. Christ came upon a woman as she was about to be stoned to death for adultery. He forgave her; you, from all we see of you, would have been hurling rocks at her because she had sinned and because everyone else in your church was. As recorded in John 8:3-11, by the way, she did not ask forgiveness. In that passage, when Christ was asked what to do with this woman who was caught in the act of sinning, Christ said, “That one of you who is faultless shall throw the first stone.” You’ve been throwing enough stones in here to build a nice wall around yourself.
I told you in an e-mail once I’d like to be your friend, and I even defended you on this board. That offer is withdrawn. I see no love, no compassion in you, and little willingness to do show any. Every one of us sins and none of us deserve grace, yet you stand on your pedestal and condemn people who commit certain sins while admitting none of your own. We’re all going to Hell, lady, or we would be if Christ hadn’t intervened because none of us can successfully obey the entire law on our own, be it Old or New Testament versions.
I don’t believe in banishing people or making them outcast because I’ve been outcast and it’s an awful position to be in. In your case, His4Ever, I’m tempted to make an exception. I’ve got enough hatred and pettiness within religioun to deal with right now, and I do not need yours. My God! If the only attempts to bring and keep me close to Jesus in my life were being made by people like you, I would, at this moment, be a Wiccan! You’ve never said explicitly whose you are forever. By the way you have consistently driven people away from Christ, I’m starting to wonder about whose you are.
CJ
[channeling Dana Carvey]
Could it be… Satan ???
[/channeling Dana Carvey]
[sub]on second thought, no, because Brian has much more integrity and isn’t a religious loon.[/sub] 
Did you miss the posts where various people on this board outlined specifically where Chick is either mistaken or outright lying?
Rounded view? Er … that’s certainly one idealistic way to describe the needless (but somehow calm) diatribe you linked to.
Just goes to further prove the notion that anything can be proven using Bible verses if you know which ones to use.
Just out of curiosity, H4e, are you going to keep on ignoring the questions I and others have put to you not only in this thread but in a half-dozen others? Gonna hide behind that “I’m right, but I can’t explain why at all, God knows and that’s all I need?” bullshit again?
Let’s spell it out right here:
You could very well be 100% right about the message of the Bible as you have outlined it on this board.
And that does not matter one whit, because people are being drawn away from God by your “witnessing”.
So either change your methods or just tell us you’re leaving (and leave. This would be the crucial part. You’ve SAID you were gonne leave several times).
And, y’know, apologize to God. He cares a lot more about His message than many of us do. Hell, all I care about are the people you meet who may actually believe your message is accurate … if only for an hour.
The sad thing is I still have questions I’m interested in knowing your answer to (not the sort of questions that serve to dig you into a dontrinal hole, either), but there are SO MANY other questions you’ve been asked countless times and … you either ignore them or don’t feel they’re important, or something … this could have turned into such an enlightening religious debate when you came onto this board.
Instead it has been just one more (albeit extended) drive-by witnesser who does not know how to … well, do much of anything:(
Please check out Jude, verses 17-25, particularly verse 23
The Lord laid this on my heart to share at another board I visit.
"And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. "
An exhortation for Christians to take risks to save the souls even of people they don’t like… hmm. (Compare this alternative [Young’s Literal] translation: “and some in fear save ye, out of the fire snatching, hating even the coat from the flesh spotted.”) Who, exactly, are you saving, His4ever? You don’t seem to be spreading the Good News outside a limited circle of people who already agree with you - and you are actively turning off a much wider circle of people who don’t. Successful evangelism is not about shouting Bible verses and saying “well, if you don’t agree, you’ll burn in Hell”, it’s about actively getting people to understand the love of Christ.
:rolleyes:
Sadly for H4E, there’s no Smilie with one’s fingers inserted in one’s ears. That would make her driveby postings much shorter if there were one.
I hate to feel like I’m piling on, but maybe another rewording will help.
His4Ever, your message has seemed to many of us to be nothing but “Accept Jesus or you’ll go to hell.”
That’s it? That’s the end result of the wondrous event that was the Word made Flesh, God sending his Son to live among us and die? That’s all you get?
That works on some people, sure. But you see many people here, and people other places as well, figure that this sounds like a cruel god who uses terror to inflict his rule. And even if they think that hell is a reality, a lot of them will figure they don’t care, because a creator of the universe who is that domineering over his creations, his children, might not be someone they care to honor. Think of those people in various countries who resist dictators at the risk of being thrown into prison and tortured over their political beliefs, and you get an idea.
And then there are people here who speak of the goodness and joy that they gain in their lives from being Christians. There are people who I look at and am just impressed by how their belief seems to enliven them. They have the usual struggles in life, even wrestle with issues of faith on occasion, but their faith to them is a light, and they hope to light a way for others as well.
You’ve been using your faith like a flaming torch, threatening others with it, telling them they’ll burn. Instead, you could be telling people how it brings warmth and light, but you seem to prefer to wield it like a weapon.
His4Ever !
You just said right above that “There are a lot of christians here, we just happen to disagree on things.”
Okay.
So you agree that Monty is a christian?
H4e is a sniveling coward who posts driveby condemnations but refses to bak them up. I’ll leave the theological wrangling to the believers, but H4E posted some rude and arrogant comments denying the facts of basic biology, yet she is unwilling to engage in a debate on the facts, mostly because she has none. Her arrogance is equalled only by her breathtaking lack of knowledge. She is a hateful, hypocritical fool, and I am tired of her bullshit.
crap, that’s “refuses to back them up”
Maybe she’s Jack Chick’s wife ?
vanilla:
For H4E to agree that I’m Christian would require that she recognize that there just might be some validity to two of my favourite quotes from Scripture:
[ul][li]And men are that they might have joy.[/li][li]Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.[/ul][/li]
Since these are both from the Book of Mormon, there’s no way she’ll even consider that the sentiments, the ideas, behind these have validity, as advice, even if one doesn’t consider them to be Holy Writ.
Nor will she consider that one verse from the Qu’ran applies to her:
I think I’ll go ahead and take this opportunity to show her how to parse something like this for oneself.
The first one I read as meaning that the purpose of life is to experience the joy of it. For me, that joy is the joy to be found in the Lord. The second one tells me that the carnal, selfish, and/or cruel so-called pleasures really aren’t that joy. You’ll notice the two verses use different words; however, they’re referring to the same thing: happiness, joy. The third tells me that I need to learn before I preach.
Now let’s look at Jude 17-25, particularly verse 22 (which I’ve bolded):
You’ll notice that, given my take on Happiness and Joy, that I look at this passage and emphasize Jude’s view of compassion and how those who have it make a difference in the lives of others. H4E, on the other hand, is into verbal self-flaggelation. She reads this passage and is completely engrossed with the concept of fear. Yet she completely ignores the fact that nobody here’s mocking God; many of us are pointing out to her that she’s touting falsehoods and thus dishonouring God. That she’s telling us to pay particular attention to verse 23 is quite telling about her motives. I forgot the poster who coined the term, but the term fits: Fundie Porn. My nomination for that term was Fornography. H4E delights in the vision that she’s a martyr and that the rest of us are doomed to damnation and hellfire.
Maybe this anecdote will help a tad: I had a great friend, Rob, many years ago. We didn’t discuss religion at all until we’d known each other for about eight months. We hung out together, saw the same movies, had the same hobbies. One day, we passed a mutual friend, Rocky (we didn’t know until that moment he was a mutual friend). After a few minutes talking with Rocky, Rob asked me how I knew him. I told Rob that I attended church with Rocky. Rob’s response was, “Nah…you’re not Mormon.” Of course, I said I am. Rob took a minute and recited, out loud, even counting on his fingers, “Huh? Wait…you don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t curse {I told you this was many years ago}. Hey, you are Mormon!” I lived my life by what I thought was the right way to be. In the end, without any urging on my part or Rocky’s, Rob joined the Church. He got interested because of how both Rocky and I acted.
H4E: how many people have you saved here? I’m venturing the correct answer is zero. Your fornography only serves your ecstasy. You might want to heed this:
I submit that falsehoods, such as those of your King Jack Chick, are not of good report nor are they praiseworthy.
Lastly, my religion tells me that God requires me to forgive all and that it is only He who knows what’s in someone’s heart, if they’re sincere. Yes, I struggle with that admonition. You’ll notice that I asked you a question in this thread. You’ve yet to answer it. I haven’t damned you. But you certainly have damned me and people, like gobear, who actually do act the way a believer’s supposed to act. THAT is what tells me you are a liar. Now answer the question I put in the thread title.