On the other end of the spectrum. During Fleet Week here in NY, my cousin came to town, he’s stationed on the USS Hayler. We were sitting around on the Hayler watching “Chasing Amy” and when it was over all four guys who were in the navy got up and bitched about how stupid the main character was for losing her because he was such a closed minded asshole.
I thought that was interesting. Also, I found it interesting that now Albuquerque NM where I grew up, has a gay pride parade, if it existed while I was growing up, it must have been low key, but Albuquerque has a very large gay population, I’ve been living in NY for 6 years and so it was nothing to me to see homosexuals publically showing affection, but I was a bit shocked and gladdened by seeing it in Albuquerque. I don’t know if this is a trend in the rest of the country, but if it is, then maybe things are going much better than seems apparent at times.
I do have an Asian friend who was ranting on about whites though, and whom I said, “Hey, I have white skin!”
To which it was replied:
“Well yah, but your a cross-breed.”
Hehe. Other side of the fence, only OK because I am /NOT/ pure bred nothin!
(African American, Native American, Italian. Oily hair, oily face, hairy everything, long fingers, tall, but on the plus side I don’t get sun burned too easily. )
catsix, engineers are humans, and are heir to all human misbehaviors, plus, they’re used to having their opinions trusted and relied upon. In my experience (and I’m quite familliar with engineers, thankyouverymuch), this makes them more prey to not listening to people they percieve to be laypersons, sometimes even outside their area of expertise.
By no means are all engineers bigots, nor did I say so. Nor even merely “most”. I have however (again, IME), run across a fairly high proportion of engineers with very fixed ideas about the world, outside their profession.
my appologies for not more clearly stating my point, including qualifications, before.
True, true. In fact designing around human mistakes and f-ups is part of the job. . . .
And the half decent responsible ones use this as a reason to be extra sure that they are right when somebody asks for their response on something.
Hell I have at least three Google windows open right now doing research for various people who have asked me questions, I make sure to cite and cross reference everything, and though my answers may be a bit slower coming then those of others, my friends (and even the occasional customer. ) appreciate that what I turn out is well researched and not just pure opinion.
Of what school of thought? All in one workplace? If so then the hiring practices there may be more to blame, some places like to hire people who are very self positive and put forth a “I can do no wrong!” attitude.
Hey, even the assholes have to get work someplace. . . .
Actually part of being a Nerd in general (any Engineer who is not a Nerd is not going to be the best Engineer that they could possibly be) is learning from everybody and everything.
Hell isn’t that one of the beauties of the Internet? (and before the Internet was as public as it is, BBSs) People are judged solely upon their intellectual merit and not upon age gender or race. (all of which can remain anonymous unless the speaker wishes to make them public)
I am not a doctor, but I double check everything my doctor says a number of times over, sometimes more thoroughly then He does. Does this mean I am egotistical? No, it just means that I am not going to take chances with something as important as the one and only Body + Mind that I have.
That and anybody with a PhD
<— wishs he had one.
has been trained in numerous fields of study and is forced to take a broad regimen of courses in a diversified area of academic learning.
(aka, they gots to study a lot)
Now while a Medical Doctor may not be qualified to design CPUs, I would definitely trust them to know (or at least figure out in short order) how to properly benchmark computer performance, since the same basic rules of deduction apply. Whether it be in determining an illness or figuring out which piece of your computer is causing your performance problems;
the same <i>thought patterns</i> are to be used. That is why basic logic classes are so useful, a conditional is a conditional no matter what field you are studying. Likewise trouble shooting tends to be the same from field to field, yes you have to know what the different parts are (appendix VS RAM chip) but heck, knowing the difference between correlation and causation is definitely important, and once you DO know the difference, you will be able to apply that knowledge to a broad range of subjects.
Or;
the short of it;
The human mind is flexible, and occasionally a smart person from outside of a field will be better equipped to handle a problem then a smart person from within a field.
Not to mention that you are singling out Engineers, how many NON Engineers beg their doctors for antibiotics to help their cold even though their doctor keeps on telling them that antibiotics serve no purpose for the cold?
“Well it helped last time. . . .”
All people are capable of the same faults (hey, didn’t you say that? ), saying that engineers are more susceptible to this is quite false;
they just look like bigger idiots when they do do those stupid things because people expect them to know better.
Are you saying that
‘in proportion to people outside of the world, Engineers are more likely to make these mistakes’
or that;
‘Engineers have a higher tendency to judge about others outside of theirs’
and you just forgot to include what they are acting proportional to?
Still, there’s the concern about how you’ll react, etc. Its a very tense thing to do. I’m still no good at it, six months into my around-my-world tour. When it goes well, its a very, very happy moment.
Engineers are often like those in other scientific fields, or in religion: they are dogmatic. They decide on a truth, and refuse to budge from their position. Often supporting the position becomes more important than accepting the truth.
If I read the company handbook, I’m sure there is an official policy against this kind of thing, however, in real life it is really not enforced. This company is very laid back, usually this is nice (I can wear anything I want), but on the other hand, 95% of the population here is white male, (and 100% of the management is), and I would guess 99% is right-wing republican. Thus, their beliefs are considered “normal” and not offensive. Hey, it doesn’t offend them, so what’s my problem?:rolleyes:
I am used to being the most liberal one here (and I am not even what most would consider a “liberal”, once my boss asked me what I was, and I answered “a conservative liberal.”) I am also used to hearing sexist remarks (all in “good fun” of course) and try not to take anything to heart, as most of the time we can all joke around and get along pretty well. Some days, though…I get tired of hearing all the “wife goes shopping” remarks, “I don’t even know why I work, my wife is probably out shopping right now, ha,ha!” Or when I take a vacation day, “careful, it’s expensive to take a vacation day, you’ll shop all your money away, ha,ha!”:rolleyes:
Yes. The only reason I work here is so I can shop! Shop, shop, shop, that’s what I do. (Added irony: I am the one who handles the money in my relationship, my husband is terrible at it and is the spender.)
It really is a “boy’s club” here, smoking is allowed in the offices and in the shop, and go into the president’s office and you’ll see a group of boys sitting around, playing cards on their lunch break and smoking. Around huntin’ season the place clears out. Many complaints about how “the wife wants me home more…ball and chain…blah blah blah.” The senior management here has an unfortunate habit of calling me “honey”, “sweetie”, and asking me to make copies for them (not my job) because “they don’t know how to use the copier.”
I stick around because the pay is better than anything else I can find right now, (although not what they promised me…but that’s another rant) and most of the time I am left alone, and, since I have shown I can do my job, I am not supervised or checked up on regularly (hence, if my work is done, I am free to be on the internet 3-4 hours a day.) But it is getting old, and believe me, my resume is out there and I am looking. But having had other, worse jobs than this, I am staying until I find something that is right, hopefully more in my field and more creative. No more lateral moves for me! I would love to start my own business, and am looking into it.
In short, I work in the 1950’s.
I seriously think if I sued, or threatened to sue, I would be viewed with puzzled looks…“what could she possibly be talking about? Must be one of those PC sue-happy liberals, always looking for something to be offended about.”:rolleyes:
I thought I was the only one! Actually, I’m (in descending order) Sicilian, African American and Native American. I, too, have to try to get sunburned. And while I too have hairy everything, I can’t grow a beard to save my life (it won’t fill-in, just look messy).
“Pack up your troubles Mr. Watson’s here!
And smile, smile, smile.
He is the genius in our I. B. M.
He’s the man worth while.
He’s inspiring all the time,
On Wall Street he’s sublime! Fine.
He is our own, our matchless President!
His smile’s worth while.”
:eek:
they keep referring to him as “big and square and true.” I’m going home to have a drink. Oy.
I remember working at DQ. One day, three of us were chatting, and Rémi said something funny, and I had a similar story, and it began, "Well, my boyfriend - "
And immediately Sam leaps up and yells, “I don’t want to hear this!” and runs away.
Mercifully, he didn’t last too much longer. I think I gayed him out of there.
Fear has nothing to do with it. Not liking someone or something does not mean that you are afraid of it. I am not IceCreamophobic. I just don’t care for it. Same with gay people. I am not too thrilled with the concept of it all, but I (and I dare say, most of people) am not ‘afraid’ of gay people.
Stop coopting the fucking language to meet your political ends!
Really? Nothing to do with fear? And your proof is derived from where?
Now, in many cases there isn’t actually fear, but in some cases there is fear involved. A fear of being percieved as gay, fear of being gay, fear of being around gay people…
Now, the phobia is an overused term, but there doesn’t seem to be much out there for better terms.
Do the men with the white coats know you’ve gotten out of your room, ottto?
A) My proof is derived from me. I am not crazy about about the whole concept of homosexuality. But I live in a predominantly gay part of town. I am not ‘afraid’. I don’t cower at home, praying that when the disco music from next door stops, it isn’t my turn. I am just plain old not crazy about that lifestyle.
B) People afraid of being gay should be called ‘people afraid of being around gay people’. Ditto for people who are afraid of being percieved as gay. There doesn’t have to be a psuedoscientific word for everything, you know.
C)No, they don’t know. And if you rat me out, you go on my list.
If you used a dictionary, you’d discover that you are homophobic, by your own admission. “Homophobia” means “irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.” The suffix “-phobia” means “exaggerated fear of” or “intolerance or aversion for.” We’re here to fight ignorance, Ottto, not to display it.
