(I changed my name from Ottto to Brutus to avoid confusion with the other Otto-kin on the board)
A) The list thing was a joke. Nothing is more pathetic then internet threats.
B) In context of my previous post, ‘that lifestyle’ = gay lifestyle. Obviously that lifestyle includes at least one difference from a heterosexual lifestyle, and in the case of my neighbors, several humourosly stereotypical differences as well.
C) Damn straight, my proof comes from me. What, proof regarding my feelings and opinions should come from some other source?
D)My tinfoil hat developed a tear while I was wiring up the cat. All is better now.
E) You misunderstand my entire point, I think. I am not here ‘gay-bashing’. Just because I am not thrilled with homosexuality in general does not mean I do or condone ANY sort of action against gay people. Far from it.
And Chula, the dictionary.com definition of homophobia is “Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men;Behavior based on such a feeling.”
I have neither fear, nor contempt for gay people. I just think the whole thing is a bit off.
Uh, Brutus? The admin. frown very heavily (like, bannably) on having more than one screen name. You should email them toute de suite and ask them to deal with the situation.
Wow, Brutus/Otttto, I’m so impressed by your use of dictionary.com. I never realized that that website was the authortative voice of the English language. Damn, you really are an idiot.
Okay, Brutus. Maybe, since you agreed (on the other thread) that it was a good idea to give supporting evidence in favor of your opinions (and had only given opinions without the evidence to support them here through ignorance of how we operated) –
Perhaps you will be the one to solve my dilemma. What do you (and the other folks who use the term) mean by “gay lifestyle”? I can think of a number of possible meanings you might impose on the term, but what do you mean by it? What are the ingredients that combine to make a gay lifestyle?
I may sound like I’m being combative in this; I’m not intentionally being so (though I may argue against something in your answer). The problem I have is that the term is undefined. You might mean “any lifestyle in which gay sex is engaged in,” “any lifestyle engaged in by a person who self-identifies as gay,” “the particular club-baths-and-circuit-parties activities of many single people who consider themselves gay,” or any of a hundred other things. Give us a definition to discuss.
Potentially valid, but not in this case. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on what the issue may be), my experience with engineers runs the gamut from Nuclear Engineers to Civil Engineers, with many other types in between. Many different locations, jobs, some civilian, some military, some family.
In an ideal world, this would be true. Sadly, it’s not always that way.
Keep after it, it’ll come (and then the Student Loan payments will come )
Rarely. It does happen on occasion, but not too often.
Actually, no. I didn’t. I did mention engineers specifically in my post, because that’s who the OP was ranting about. I certainly did not express a limitation of this behavior to engineers, although I did express that engineers may be more prone to this than some other unspecified groups. Other highly educated persons are in the same boat.
In my experience, (and I again appologise for not including the qualification in my first post in this tread), Engineers are just as capable as anyone else of holding closely to an unfounded opinion. Possibly more so, as I’ve seen quite a number of engineers come up with silly assertions outside their area of expertise, and then support that silly opinion on the grounds that they were engineers, which is a classic example of the False Authority Syndrom.
I’ve heard grossly uninformed or wildly off-base opinions IRT homosexuality, politics, technology, social dynamics, history, even meterology fer cryin’ out loud! Hell, I’ve even held some of those opinions myself (While not actually an engineer, that’s where much of my education lies), until disabused or otherwise educated.
Most are in fact thoughtful and careful people, but that doesn’t prevent them from being mis-informed and or ignorant outside their area of education.
If you wish to discuss at greater length, please take it to e-mail, where we can debate to our hearts content, without further hijacking this thread.
OK, so it would make sense that “anti-homosexism” would be next on the list, but “homophobia” predates everyone here, so shut the fuck up - none of us “coopted” anything. If you want to blame some uppity faggots, blame Harry Hay.
Oh my god, I think I just laugh so hard I ruptured.
I’m a computer tech at a university hospital. I recently spent an hour trying to teach a world-reknowned cardiologist how to copy and paste in Windows Explorer. I would trust this man to do open-heart surgery on me, but he can’t figure out that the reason he can’t connect to his ISP is that he cancelled the credit card it’s billed to.
There’s a lot to be said for having experience in a field.
And as to the good ol’ “definition of homophobia” discussion… why do you care? If you’re not afraid of gay people, why should a word disturb you? Why is it a big deal what words are commonly used for intolerant people? If I realized that I was being senselessly intolerant of a group of people, how they referred to me would be the last of my concerns. Well below, say, “Learning to overcome my prejudices” or “Becoming a more tolerant, understanding person” on my list. But hey, that’s just me. Please feel free to continue quibbling semantics.
Oh please. There is no such thing as a “gay lifestyle.” I’m gay. How does my life differ from that of my two best friends, both of whom are straight? Well, Nathan’s married, and I’m not. And Mitch has a girlfriend, and I don’t. Other than that… hmmm… I use a Mac, they suffer with Windows… hmmmm… I’ve been to one gay bar in my life, they haven’t… hmmm… my shirts are always tucked in…
Strange, I can’t think of any real differences. Perhaps I’m not really gay.
Or perhaps “the gay lifestyle” is bigotted bullshit concocted by gay-haters and homophobes who are really no different than their Klansmen cousins. I mean, grampy and pappy hated negroes and papists, it’s your turn to hate fags, right?
The moment you start spreading bullshit about the nonexistant “gay lifestyle,” a weapon used by Baptists and other vermin to attack and denegrate and deny gays equality under the law, you are gay bashing.
So you say, after showing great contempt for gay people.
**Kirkland 1244, **your use of the phrase “Baptists and other vermin” in the preceding post is as distasteful as the term “gay lifestyle.” It seems to portray all Baptists as bad, and is the same thing as when Fred Phelps calls all gays “irretrieveably doomed” With all due respect, perhaps you should consider eating your words. BTW, *I’m * not Baptist, but Episcopalian.
If I may be so bold as to say this, Kirkland1244, your revision is as tasteless as the original statement. No matter what your beef is it is not right to make general statements about groups as a whole. STatements such as gays having a certain “lifestyle” or “Southern Baptists and other vermin.” Both are wrong.
Disclaimer: This rant was referring to co-workers at Velma’s place of employment, and should not be applied to Baptists, Southern Baptists, Engineers as a group, males, white males, white middle aged males, or humans in general. Any use out of context is strictly prohibited. Any use of the words “homophobic, lifestyle, or Southern” is prohibited. Must be 18 to enter. All rights reserved. Void in Alaska and Hawaii, and where prohibited. Satisfaction guaranteed (guarantee void in Tennessee.)
I keep reading this. Then laughing. Then reading it again. Laughing again.
You’ve obviously never heard what the construction crews (pipefitters, electricians, carpenters, et. al.) have to say about the “white hats”, if you think engineers are held in high regard by others.
Southern Baptists, by choice, support an evil organization that has in its history supported slavery and prohibition, been against civil equality for gays, blacks and women, fought to keep nonsense like creationism in schools and real science out. They are accountable for every disreputable thing that body has ever done, and every lie about gay people it spreads, up to the present day.
They day the Southern Baptist convention stops being the standard bearer for bigotry and malice, and stops opposing equality and progress, is the day that I respect it, and anyone who willingly associates themselves with it. Until then, it is a backward, evil institution, and it should be treated as such.
Gay lifestyle = Having sexual relations with members of your own sex.
Am I wrong with that statement? Does the above statement in no way apply to the real world? What the fuck did you expect? Lemme guess, you were expecting ‘Lots of dance music, lisps, etc’.
And while I do not give a flipping-fuck about Southern Baptists or gay people, it strikes me that you are nothing more then the gay equivalent of a ‘Southern Baptist’. Quick to pass blanket-judgements against an entire group of people. Funny.
Most engineers don’t spend all that much time in direct contact with the tradesmen.
Engineers also cover a far wider range than just construction, and my comment was a broad-spectrum one. Finally, at least within the unit’s I’ve dealt with, the Civil engineers of the CEC (Civil Engineering Corps) of the SeaBees were quite respected by the blueshirts. I’ve no idea how the tradesmen feel about the engineers and architects of, say, STV Group (to name another group of CEs I’ve worked with), but I can tell you that those engineers expect to be relied upon when they show-up, and expect their professional opinions to be listened to with due consideration.
I understand your point Tranquilis. I even agree. But I have lived and worked around enough blue-collar guys to know that many have low opinions of engineers, particularly the CEs. I just had to laugh because of the mental dissonance I was experiencing trying to reconcile your statement of engineer expecting respect and real-world opinions about engineers held by tradesmen that I know.
Ironically, though, most of the guys would be pleased if their kids grew up to be engineers and not have to work in the sometimes dangerous jobs they occupy.
You might want to buy a bunch of copies of “The Rise of the Creative Class: And How It’s Transforming Work, Leisure, Community and Everyday Life” when it comes out and leave them scattered around the office. Here’s a preview at Salon:
The book proposes that high economic growth is corrolated with large gay and bohemian communities. Apparently having a tolerent, artsy, multicultural environment is a big draw for the creative high-performer worker.
(My wife and I recently found out that we’re going to be relocating from Apex, North Carolina to Los Angeles, California. Our first response was “Jews! Queers! We’re returning to civilization!”)
BTW – if you start feeling really uncomfortable at work and getting another job is not an option, you might consider filing a sexual harassment complaint. Sexual harassment is not just a boss hitting on a subordinate. It can also occur if the workplace provides an environment hostile to women and management does nothing to rectify the situation after it has been called to their attention.
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