sexism. workplace. clueless coworkers

Dear two clueless nitwits I have to work with,

Let me explain something. I know that you view women as some strange, fascinating, foreign species. I get that members of that species are something you desperately want to possess, possibly to stuff and mount and admire in your living rooms or something. I get that your interactions with that strange and wonderful species have been limited, perhaps even non-existant, since the only way I can understand your behaviour is to assume your mother abandoned you, hoping you would be raised by wolves, only, instead to be raised by some solitary social-skills lacking creature, like alligators or something.

Now, let’s get a couple of things straight between us. Women: I’m a fan. Boobs? Yeah, as it happens, I like them. That said, I manage, somehow, not to go around the entire office inviting my coworkers to go to Hooters with me for lunch. And, in the utterly unlikely event that I ever did, I would not, in point of fact, giggle like a nervous 12-year-old who had just learned a naughty word.

Now, while I’m a fan, as I mentioned, of women generally, and, you know, boobs, and in fact am pretty damn indiscriminate about that fandom, I admit I’m not a fan of Hooters. But hey, if you, clueless twit, are, then knock your bad self out. Go forth, and drink cheap beer and generally be around comely women. Different strokes for different folks. Just, and I realize this is going to be a huge infringement on your right to be a little greasy little fucking creepy thing (did mommy alligator not give you enough food while she was busy not giving you enough affection?) , but, try, very hard, to set aside the being fucking creepy around the office while you are within earshot of me. And, when I tell you that this is not, as you may have learned while whatever reptilian life form was basically failing on the parenting front in what we might jokingly call your “upbringing”, appropriate office behaviour, do not (and this is gonna be a challenge, but challenges are how we grow) then giggle nervously and say “I can’t say what? Hooters?!”. No, you can’t. Nice work, growing a brain when I told you I’d be dragging you over to HR by your ear if you said it again.

Is this a real problem? No, of course not. However, my second problem child is more aggravating.

I get that, since the ink is actually still wet on your diploma, and you’ve successfully written what could well be scores of lines of code for your own app, you think you have All The Answers (and as a bonus, thanks to that hour of my life I’ll never get back, you now have All The Answers about how pointers work). I get that an application that will be maintained by more than one person, that will be expanded year after year while despite the best efforts of better people than you it slowly turns to a big ball of mud is beyond not only your experience but your imagination. You, sir, are an idiot, and I know that. It is my sad lot in this life, one can only assume for horrific sins committed in a past one, to educate you in the finer points of software development, including, but not limited to, yes, sadly, pointers, and inheritance, and protocols and design patterns and all sorts of stuff that you seem, sadly, to have badly misunderstood. Misunderstood in ways that cause me actual ongoing physical pain. However, that you are a dumbass with delusions of adequacy is not the problem. That is to be expected.

When however, you are told that a developer will be joining the team, you do not refer to him as “the new girl”.

Now, as it happens, that developer is vastly better and more qualified than you will ever hope to be, especially since your life is increasingly likely to be cut short in a tragic and inexplicable paper shredding incident that will occur at a time when I am engaged in activity known as “making sure I have an air-tight alibi”.

That new team member is also, as it happens, our team member. In software, as you would know if you had ever written more than trivial applications, we are handed enough shit without taking it out on each other. We always, always, always, stand up for and assist our teammates. Even those who, like you, should have been fed to the alligator who did such a bad job with your friend. That, however, is not the point.

The point is that your statement is a bit like your code: nothing about it okay. The attitude about women expressed (in this country, the entreaty “play like a girl” is meant to inspire one to be like the hockey team. Not an insult) is so troublesome it seems its actually more cost-effective to render you down for the 89 cents worth of chemicals than it is to go to the trouble of educating you, but, well, past life sins or something. Maybe I was a mass murderer? However, I wish to assure you, it is not an insult. Which leads me to the problem: it’s a stupid statement on every possible level. There is nothing particularly effeminate about him. He’s…a normal guy. And, and this is the problem - I don’t fucking care. His sex isn’t a thing. We don’t attempt to denigrate people for that, many because we just don’t. We don’t attempt to denigrate people by referring to them as girls. It isn’t okay. That you care, that you notice, actually sort of makes you a creepy fuck. Words actually fail me. And anyone who has made it to this point knows that doesn’t happen often.

But, I am your tech lead (be honest with me here - did I attempt genocide or something in a past life?) you decided you would, apparently because of some congenital clue-deficinecy, tell me this in writing in a Skype conversation. Now I have to do something about it, and apparently there are “laws” “preventing” me from “cutting up your body and using it for fish bait” EVEN THOUGH there is a lake not 2 km from the office. See, being clueless isn’t inherently a bad thing, until you start doing stupid, asinine stuff that bugs me. Then, it is.

One reason why I don’t want to go into management is having to deal with shite like this. It somewhat easy to just shrug off ignorant, off-the-cuff remarks when you are low on the totem pole. But when you’re someone’s boss, it’s kind of your job to reign them in. You have my sympathies.

Thank you. I’m in the weird in-between world in software; not a manager, but still semi-responsible. I got to kick it up to my manager.

My entire long-winded rant could have boiled down to “seriously, don’t be a twit in the work place”.

Huh. I just read that in the voice of my brother-in-law, because I think I’ve heard him give that rant, more or less word-for-word. To be fair, he spent a number of years in a not-for-profit that was specifically training underprivileged young’uns in software development and appropriate workplace behavior, so some level of learning curve was expected. But teaching programming skills didn’t seem nearly as challenging as teaching “don’t be a sexist jerk” skills. (And some people don’t need to be taught either one.)

What did the poor fish in that lake ever do to you to deserve being fed that kind of shit?

bashere, I, evidently unlike you, have no words. That… is a rant of beauty. I want to marry that rant and move in with it in a little cabin out on some pristine and idyllic Alpine landscape where we’d soon get busy making lots of cute little rantbabies.

Kinda related but not. I just like this story.

My older brother, younger brother, and I were walking around one day. My little brother had it in his head to refer to every woman as a bitch, for some reason (he was about 17).

LB: Yeah, so I was talking to this bitch the other day and blah blah blah. Then I saw this other bitch.
OB: Stop talking like that. You sound like a fucking moron.
LB: So I was talking to this girl…

And I haven’t heard him talk like that since.

Yep, that kind of thing is best handled immediately. The op didn’t state if he did but His IMMEDIATE reply to the guy should have been, "Show a little class and quit with the “girl” bullshit talk.

It amazes me and disgusts me how long we’ve spent putting women in the corner. That is half the world’s brains! How many amazing things did we miss out on because women’s brains weren’t trained, weren’t educated? We literally just looked at half the population and said, “You have a vagina, you sit on this pedestal over here, unless we knock you down, in which case it’s your fault anyway, but don’t ever think!”

Ugh.

Very similar to my immediate reaction. I didn’t swear. It was more along the lines of “knock it off, we do not talk that way under any circumstances”. The Hooters one was similar, and also immediate.

I once had a co-worker who would say an offensive thing to me. He knew it bothered me and he thought it was funny, in the ‘good-natured ribbing’ sense. I told him I didn’t see it that way and asked him to stop.

He did not…until I told him I was going to drag him down to HR the very next time he said it. THEN he stopped.

I know developers like that. Don’t ever introduce him to code analysis software/tools, because every time he encounters a problem the solution will be to run everyone else’s code through it.

You might want to post what you plan to say to the manager for evaluation. (I trust it won’t be a copy-paste of the rant, which was a tad hard to follow.)

I don’t know that I would be involving a manager over someone asking colleagues if they want to go to Hooters for lunch and giggling like a 12-yo (which you evidently pointed out wasn’t appropriate), or referring to a new colleague/guy as “the new girl” in a Skype conversation. But then I don’t know what the culture is like at your company. Usually this sort of thing backfires, and that can happen even when you are speaking up for women who are reluctant to speak up for themselves when you’ve witnessed or have on good authority that he’s been behaving badly (a/k/a “being creepy”).

I’ve worked with my current manager for four years and at two different companies. I explained the problem in under two dozen words, and sent him the conversation. He needs to be aware of it. He knows he needs to be aware of it, and finds it, like I do, a pain the arse. He told me to be sure to stomp it down (as I did) and make sure he knows.

I didn’t do a thing about Hooters boy except tell him to stop clearly enough that he did.

I get that you hate these two with a purple passion (and how), but as to the second in particular, I’m not sure in light of his other relevant faults a petty, immature and insecure use of “the new girl” as a derogatory would be the straw that broke the camel’s back.

If manager recognizes in this guy the same things that you do, would seem odd that he’d still be employed and thus be in a position to set off however much of a thousand-word rant over “the new girl”. Does he know where someone buried some bodies or something?

bashere and Anaamika, you’re both absolutely right. I’ve been thinking about this issue lately because of ridiculous sexist crap that’s been going on here in Canada lately. Of course there’s the Jian Ghomeshi thing, the Dalhousie University Dental School thing, the recent Concordia University issue, and the whole “fuck her in the pussy” thing to female reporters. In all instances there have been appalling and astonishing levels of sexism and hatred against women.

I’m a 55 year old guy and I absolutely can’t believe that we’re still doing this in western society in the 21st century. It has been my understanding and belief that we were supposed to be (and were) progressing and that we were supposed to be better than that. But it seems to be getting worse.

I left the Canadian military a few years ago and during my service I’ve had three female bosses, all of whom were great. Our navy has had a female captain of a frigate, and an openly gay male captain of a frigate.

In my civilian employment since, I’ve worked for a female project manager and she was excellent. At the same time I’m learning new concepts like “hate fuck”. WTF is that anyway?

How the hell did we socially evolve to this point anyway?

I love that rant too. It’s a polyamorous rant.

The he/girl thing made me think it was a trans-issue, but you’re saying he just calls one random dude a girl? That’s odd. Did the target have a reaction, or is this always out of earshot? I’ve seen men call everyone “lady,” like they’re trying to emulate macho football coaches they see on TV or something, but otherwise that sounds like dumb high school bully behavior.

Bit of a tangent, and maybe I’m ignorant of how it’s used in Canada in particular, but generally this meme just seems like a juvenile way to say naughty words on TV, or completely change the tenor of a story, with the reporter’s gender beside the point. This example reminded me of the classic C-SPAN penis trolls.

marshmallow, I’ve only seen media attention to it in Canada, applied to female reporters. In fact, it seemed to be a significant issue at the St. Patrick’s day parade in Montreal with a female CBC reporter. Perhaps it’s not ostensibly aimed at women but the very nature of it is such that, in reality, that will be the outcome.

So today, in Toronto, some guys were heckling a female reporter with the old “Fuck her right in the pussy” BS. She confronted them and challenged them verbally and, not surprisingly, they had nothing viable to say because they were too cool. So one of them was identified thanks to the videos going viral. He works (or worked) for Hydro One, the hydro provider for Ontario, which fired him a few hours ago, from his $106,510.50 a year job (this is what happens when 12 year olds get paid $100k per year :)).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/hydro-one-employee-fired-after-yelling-fhritp-at-citynews-reporter-shauna-hunt-1.3070948; and http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2015/05/12/fhritp-could-be-a-crime-say-toronto-police.html
To this I say - outstanding! And apparently there is an online hunt to identify the two others involved, though it seems that one of them and his workplace have been identified as well.