Ben-let it go-it’s a lost cost.
That’s lost CAUSE.
Dammit.
:o
Heh. There’s a version of this (without the pretty pictures) on the infidels.org website with over two hundred entries by dozens of contributors! (And I’m not pointing it out just because I happened to be one of the contributors, either! No, really!)
Um … er … and I just noticed that the last panel on the back page of Ben’s tract references http://www.infidels.org/misc/humor/lioaca.html explicitly.
D’OH! :smack:
Cool, tracer- I didn’t realize you had contributed!
Tears came to my eyes when I read Padeye’s post. God bless you and your church.
But isn’t it a documented fact that homosexuals have left homosexuality and become “straight”?
Do you see the harm that is caused by your assertion of your right to judgement DrChuckie? Do you see the hatred of the Lord that you inspire in others as they call your hypocrisy His own? Are you unaware of the Christian call to non-judgement, lest you anger the one who is right to judge?
How do you justify yourself as a Christian and a follower of the Lord?
I am calling you out, and any who wish to follow, but now you will debate with mehere.
I demand that you define and justify your holiness in the Pit, against a follower of Christ!
No, it’s not. The organizations that tout this “fact” have not allowed the process to be documented and organized around rigorous scientific and statistical procedures. There are also questions about follow-up many years after the “conversion” and even about the original orientation of the participants before they started the treatment.
One particular point that sticks out in my mind is that all of the organizations that promote this treatment are specifically religious and overwhelmingly Christian. In my mind, they’re not doing this so much as a reasonable medical or pyschological procedure but as a religious conversion.
It might be worth looking into the actual evidence, such as it is, about “ex gay ministries” and their putative effectiveness. I’ve found that data and even anecdotal evidence about them is so biased as to be totally unusable, but have managed to put together a statement I can feel comfortable with about what they presume to do and whether or not it “works.”
Yours for fighting ignorance,
Poly
And that statement is?
BTW, I don’t have a cite handy, but if you search old threads you’ll find that ex-gay ministries hemmorhage their members, and even their leadership. There have been a number of scandals in which the leaders of ex-gay ministries have been found cruising in gay bars and so forth. (In particular, one of the big “poster children” of Exodus International, IIRC, was found to be actively gay. You know, the very midwest-looking guy that always ends up on the cover of Newsweek with his “ex-lesbian” wife. A reporter spotted him in a gay bar and began flirting with him, and published the conversation.)
Also, Exodus (the largest such organization) has been quoted in the past as saying the majority of those seeking treatment will fail to “convert” for any long period of time or great degree and they state that they cannot fully eliminate homosexual desire, only suppress it for the most part.
And thats from the organization itself. The APA has issued a statement that conversion therapy should at no time be recommended for a patient, because they have no solid evidence it works, and much evidence that it can lead to depression, self-destructive behavior, even suicide.
Conversion therapy would work with those truly bisexual, because it can force the person to suppress one side of their longing, but even then it can be dangerous. For someone very homosexual (a 5-6 on the Kinsey scale), it stands little to no chance.
Freyr and Polycarp,
So you are telling me that it is impossible for a homosexual to become straight? (Please note I use the word “impossible.”)
I’m not questioning your intelligence or your sources. I’m merely asking the question.
A Person of Color Who Seeks Information,
ThoughtPolice
PS: I must change my signature!
Check this link out, ThoughtPolice
I’m not sure about everything in it, but it seems to have very legit sources and also links to other sites. Hope it helps 
Defining a homosexual as a person who has entirely same sex desires and experiences and defining straight as having entirely opposite sex desires and experiences, then yes, it’s impossible to change from one to the other.
Put differently, it’s never been successfully demonstrated to those who are knowledgable about this sort of thing (the APA and the AMA) that such a thing has ever been accomplished or could ever be accomplished without serious harm to the subject.
Well, the hamsters ate my first answer.
Quite simply, the organizations don’t work as they claim to. What they do do, is to inculcate a sense of self-loathing in the people they work with, where they feel that they can (quotes attributing statements to the ex-gay ministries) “successfully suppress sinful desires” by relying on “the strength of Christ” – and, of course, it’s quite possible for a bisexual person to condition himself or herself to focus on the heterosexual aspect of his/her sexuality, simply regarding the homosexual aspect as something to be minimized and regarded as of no consequence.
I will concede that God can work miracles – but it’s been my observation that in general He does not answer prayers of the sort “God, make me straight!” by doing as He’s asked. I won’t speak to the possibility of long-term self-conditioning – but the idea that God will instantaneously change a believing gay person into a straight person is the purest BS.
Gentlemen,
I’ve bookmarked that website (thanks, Priam), and I’ll explore it when I’m not to tired to think. Thanks for you input. I gotta get some sleep. I am about to crater.
A Person of Color,
ThoughtPolice
PS: I hope you know that “ThoughtPolice” is from “1984” and, more or less, a joke. (War is Peace…)
Gentlemen,
I could not sleep, so I examined the website Priam recommended.
Let’s be fair. Don’t you think that website is biased? I do not say this to slam that website. Humans, as is our nature, all have certain biases. I know I do, and I believe you gentlemen do, too. So can we view the information on that website as “gospel”? I doubt it. Neither can we trust the anti-homosexual websites that claim “any” homosexual can become “straight.” I think you’ll agree with both of my statements.
Thank you both (Priam and Polycarp) for treating me with respect, even though I do not share your beliefs. I intend to continue the debate, but I will be out of town for a couple of days. You gents take care of yourselves.
PS: Overlook my spelling/grammer mistakes. I work with numbers, and I am pathetic at spelling/grammer.
BTW, please respond to my above post, even though I will be out-of-pocket for a couple of days. I will know you’ve responded via email notification, and I will respond when I can.
Polycarp, Even though I am a Christian, I do not believe God works miracles (in the Biblical sense) any longer. I believe that ended when the last Apostle died. I do believe God answers prayers.
OFF THE SUBJECT: I mention that I am a “Person of Color” because, unfortunately, I have seen a post or 3 that would have offended me if I did not have thick (and, perhaps, a little darker than most? skin. (The posts were not on this thread and I do not believe I could find them again. I saw them just “surfing” this website. I just chalk it up to ignorance.) Just because I am a “Person of Color” has no relevance to any post I make on this forum. You’ve no need to comment on this OFF THE SUBJECT because it is irrevlevant. As the Borg say on Star Trek, "Resistance is futile. We will assimilate you!
Yes, God answers prayer – but sometimes the answer is “No” or “Not yet.” And it appears that the prayer of a gay person to “go straight” is one He declines to grant in virtually every case.
To be as accurate as possible, there have been two or three case histories documenting “successes” that I would agree were a true change of orientation. But against this there are literally hundreds of anecdotal cases where, on the presumption that the person’s testimony is to be believed, there was sincere and concerted effort to change from gay to straight, sometimes with truly aggressive therapy including shock treatment. that failed utterly.
FWIW, that site which Priam linked to is run by a gay group, and most of its links are to gay groups, so there is some slight slantage of perspective – but it’s as close to unbiased on the subject as I’ve seen. And, begging your pardon, though many conservatives would disagree, I consider the APA to be as close to employing scientific objectivity as is possible in matters of the human psyche.