Usually there is no debate. Obviously, when a person dies and they’ve made it known that they didn’t want a priest or religious ceremony, it would be terribly rude to go against that.
If a person says they would like to be cremated and sprinkled in the ocean, you don’t go against that.
But let’s say you are overseas, far away from the person. He/She knows you have a wedding ceremony coming up and a holiday vacation near. On his death bed he says that he doesn’t want you to change your plans and fly across the world to be next to him and the family. The entire family tells you not jump in a plane because “he wouldn’t want you to interupt your plans”.
Part of your vacation actually involves going to visit this person and the family anyway. You didn’t expect his death, so you planned to visit him a month from now. So, no matter what you do, you will see the family in less than a month.
All that stuff about “don’t jump in a plane to be with the family. He wouldn’t want you to change your plans”, is it just bullshit that people feel obligated to say? Would jumping in a plane and flying across the world to be with the family against his/their wishes be the wrong thing to do?
Would not jumping in a plane and flying across the world be the wrong thing?
When someone says something like that, do they mean it? Or is it like “He wouldn’t want you to cry. He wouldn’t want you to be sad” Is it like that, where if you’re not sad and you dont cry, then that’s more fucked up than if you actually obeyed his wishes and refrained from crying.
Well, what makes you think flying back to the funeral would be best? Best for whom? You? The departed? His family?
Obviously it can’t be for the dead - it’s not like it can offend them. If you feel that you would be an important part of the family grieving process, then you could do it for their benefit.
Is it because you yourself need closure? If so, is the value you gain from being at the funeral greater than the value you’d gain by not disrupting your plans? The dying guy in this case told you not to disrupt your plans because he thought that would be best for you - if you decide what’s best for you is going back, then you’re not really going against his wishes.
Flying back would be best for the family and the grieving process. But then they might be even more sad knowing that you interupted your plans to be with them.
The person isn’t a stranger. The person is part of your immediate family. So his family is your family.
I considered IMHO, but the question seemed like it was deeper than that. Maybe not.
I don’t understand how they could be even more sad. Somehow, to me, the fact that the person interrupted their plans to come home would be very low on the list of “sad-factors” the family is probably dealing with. If that person was close to you, then I think it’s more than appropriate to take pains to come to the funeral.
Ultimately, though, it comes down to you and how you felt your relationship was with that person. For example, I’d sure as hell come home to go to the funeral of my immediate relatives. Socially, even for estranged family members, I feel like you ought to be at the funeral. Not only to pay respects, but to also show compassion and solidarity with the rest of your family. Particularly so if the relative died young.
For a non-relative, coming after the funeral and paying your respects at the gravestone might be even more respectful of the family under certain conditions.
I think theres plenty to debate. Personally i feel like the deceased wishes should be the last thing considered when deciding what to do, because they are DEAD. Funerals are for the living, if atheist grandpa dies and jesus grandma whos been married to him for the last 75 years wants a priest and a religious ceremony then thats exactly what should happen. Putting the wishes of people who are not affected in any way shape or form over the wishes of grieving relatives seems incredibly cruel to me.
Well, I’d make the distinction between a promise made while the deceased was alive, which one ought to keep if at all possible, even if it doesn’t suit other people, from just the deceased’s wishes, as generally known.
To me the difference is individual request–if the deceased asked ME to do something for him, and I promised I would, that carries a lot of weight. If I wasn’t willing to carry through on it, I shouldn’t have made the promise. (and I’m not saying take it to the extreme of “keep the promise no matter what”-just that it has a lot of weight. Same for a request in the will.
In principle, I more or less agree with DigitalC on following the generalized wishes of the deceased. Even so, to follow their wishes is a good thing to do, and I’d think it right to follow them unless there was a good reason not to. However, needs of the living/what would help them reach closure is exactly the kind of good reason I’m talking about there-I wouldn’t give the deceased’s wishes no weight, but would be much more ready to compromise if following the deceased’s wishes would hurt, or wouldn’t be best for those still alive. The deceased is dead, and I’m more interested in doing right by the people who can still be hurt if things aren’t done right.
Fuck it. I’d fly back to be with the person. If they tossed me out of the hospital room, I suppose that’d be a different story. I don’t know of too many people who would be able to carry on their activities if a loved one was dying. Obama’s situation was one in a million, and I think he handled it correctly. However, I’m not running for president and I cannot imagine a circumstance (aside from possibly a financial roadblock) that would keep me from being at the bedside of the loved ones in my life.
I’d fly back, but, if possible, not for the funeral, BEFORE the funeral. When my Mother-in-Law was near death, one of her grandkids flew back to visit with her. The other two couldn’t make it (too great of an expense;) however they made it for the funeral. For the same cost, they could’ve had one more visit with her. They were “forced” to come home for her death, but it would’ve meant a lot more to her and them to have seen her alive one more time.
I guess, on the other hand, the more family that can be around for the funeral, the better it is for all of them.
I’m just saying, if you know that a funeral’s probably not too far away, why not make that one trip count and visit the person before she dies?
I think if the person in question is already dead, it’s up to those left to do what they want to as far as flying home or religious ceromonies or whatever.
If they are still alive, their wishes should be respected as far as possible (as in, “Please don’t come see me on my deathbed!” or “No religious crap, please!”) since to do otherwise is hurtful and disrespectful to the person.
I defended my late DH against any religious activities while he was dying (telling the hospital Chaplain, No, he would NOT appreciate a prayer being said over him, and making it clear to his parents that I would stand between him and them if they tried to go in and talk with him about his “salvation.”) Not that he was an atheist, but he was never “religious” or into that stuff and was struggling already…I refused to allow him to be potentially agitated by such nonsence.
After, I didn’t care what sort of ceremony or prayers they did. I had him cremated, as he wished.
FTR, I DO happen to believe we go on after death and that he is still aware to some degree of us still here, but I don’t presume he is any longer remotely concerned with such petty issues, nor do I assume he was pissed off by any failures to follow his wishes.
It is just good form to try and follow those wishes, I think. My late grandmother made it clear she wanted to be cremated. But my aunt, who had her keeping the last decade or so of her long life had her burried, just because she couldn’t stand not having a grave to visit.
That pissed ME off, but I doubt Granny was too bothered by it…she’d gone on to more important issues.
It seems to me his message was to not interrupt your plans for him. But in reality you’re not doing it for him, you’re doing it for you and for your feelings for him and his family.
I see no disrespect to him if you follow your heart in this matter.
I think the intention here is - if you’re half way hiking through the wilderness - keep going - don’t airlift yourself out to attend my funeral. Swapping a vacation date doesn’t apply. Go to the funeral - it’ll be good for you and the rest of the family.
In my family, at least, people are sincere when they say don’t worry about attending a funeral if there is a reason it would be difficult. In my case, I have health problems that make it extremelly hard to travel, and I always get sick when I do. I did not make it to my grandfather’s funeral, even though I would have liked to be there, and everybody was sincerely okay with that.
I did make it to our family reunion the year before, and one of the reasons I went was to see my grandparents alive. I think it meant a lot to people that I did that, and I know it meant a lot to me. But after he died? Well, he would have understood, and I reached out to the family members who needed comforting in other ways. It’s not like I ignored the death.
So if it were my family, we’d tell you to stay where you are and get married, and it would be sincere and with no emotional strings attached. We’d be seeing you soon anyway. But my family is of the sort that doesn’t see a death as an urgent matter. I will never get a call at 2 am to inform me that someone has died–we wait for a respectable hour on the grounds that once someone’s dead, there’s nothing to be done to change it. People can start their grieving and consoling the next morning.
It’s different prior to death, of course. If there is someone who would be physically and emotionally close enough to be at a bedside as death draws near, they’d get the 2 am wakeup call, if needed. It did cause offense in my family when a close relative who could have travelled to my grandfather’s side during his final days didn’t go.