Hotel of Heroes mafia

[peekercpa]

@Meeko

**How many rookies do we have this game? **

For the non-rookies : Remember way back … all the way back… to your first game. Were you scum?

I’m just wondering how hard it is for a rookie scum to play this game, or if it would be a wash in comparison to rookie town.

I mean, there was conversation earlier about playing the noobie card too easily. How much of that is a false positive, and how much isn’t ?

i was a mason my first game, go figure.

it wasn’t until my second game that i was scum with three other first time scummers. i pulled a giraffe and said fuck it and false claimed town detective.

first game on the major boards that not one scum died.

it’s easier being a first time scummer than a first time townie.

[Meeko]

@peekercpa

i was a mason my first game, go figure.

it wasn’t until my second game that i was scum with three other first time scummers. i pulled a giraffe and said fuck it and false claimed town detective.

first game on the major boards that not one scum died.

it’s easier being a first time scummer than a first time townie.

The thinking being that the other scum could reel you in?
Well I guess that beats talking your only other mason member insane.

[Idle_Thoughts]

My first game was Mafia III (yes, III as in, the 3rd game ever on here/Giraffe/my boards/FB/Mellophant) and I was vanilla. First time I was scum was in Mafia V: The Cult of Sekhem.

Man, I’ve been playing this game too long. : p

[Idle_Thoughts]

Actually, strike that…I was a Watchman in my first game. Not that it matters.

/oog

[special_ed]

@Meeko

Dude. Lighten up man, was just joking around.

I’m glad you’ve made new friends.

HEH.

I still don’t have any friends. But I do talk to people occassionally.

[special_ed]

@peekercpa

i was a mason my first game, go figure.

it wasn’t until my second game that i was scum with three other first time scummers. i pulled a giraffe and said fuck it and false claimed town detective.

first game on the major boards that not one scum died.

it’s easier being a first time scummer than a first time townie.

My first game was as Scum. I counter claimed the detective on Day 3 and got him lynched. We ended up winning despite my lynch the following Day

[Chipacabra]

I’m never scum. Not that anyone ever believes me!

We’re getting some good activity for Day One, I think, especially over the weekend. I think I’ll wait until tomorrow (Monday, not toMorrow) to start belligerently prodding the non-participating.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

I believe I was vanilla Town my first game.

[Chronos]

it wasn’t until my second game that i was scum with three other first time scummers. i pulled a giraffe and said fuck it and false claimed town detective.

first game on the major boards that not one scum died.

How did you avoid getting lynched, after the counter-claim? Or was there genuinely not a real detective in the game?

[peekercpa]

@Chronos

How did you avoid getting lynched, after the counter-claim? Or was there genuinely not a real detective in the game?

nah, there was a town detective who had already claimed. but he was being such a prick about the whole thing that i think town wanted to string his ass anyways. and to be totally fair it came down to the last day when we semi posted our pms. every town voted for me and every scum voted for him and i won on a coin flip.

[peekercpa]

neta: and this was back in the blaster master days. he basically argued for keeping us both alive and see what panned out and just go back into the unconfirmed pool. and we did. and we kept lynching and then killing town.

[storyteller0910]

Sorry, all, didn’t realize things had actually gotten underway in a significant way already. I am belatedly confirming my PM, and will get started tomorrow.

[Astral_Rejection]

@Meeko

**How many rookies do we have this game? **

For the non-rookies : Remember way back … all the way back… to your first game. Were you scum?

I’m just wondering how hard it is for a rookie scum to play this game, or if it would be a wash in comparison to rookie town.

I mean, there was conversation earlier about playing the noobie card too easily. How much of that is a false positive, and how much isn’t ?

I was scum my first game of Mafia. I played the noob card every chance I got, and I was quite a bit less “noobie” than I claimed.

[Meeko]

@peekercpa

neta: and this was back in the blaster master days.

My Double E sense is tingling.

Do speak more about this Blaster Master. Ok, well, perhaps not in game, but I get a feeling that this guy is closer to being a Double E than not.

[Wolverine]

If I know Mahaloth and there are masons in this game, I would bet that they are Sam and Dean Winchester from Supernatural. That alone should be enough to keep people from claiming anything, including canon.

But he did say it wasn’t breakable, so maybe not.

[Oredigger77]

Looks like we’re off to a good start and since we’ve got the Day ending soon I’ll just jump right in.

Based on what people have said about their roles I don’t think a name claim will help but I don’t see any harm in noting whether you are a good guy or not and I’m a good guy. I don’t think the cannon discussion will go very far though since I’m from a tiny cannon I would guess that most of us are from different cannons.

Since it’s still a relatively recent conversation I want to throw my two cents in about what the unknown pool is; it is where the scum can hide, by shrinking the unknown pool we give the scum less places to hide. Once people have claimed in my mind they are moved into a separate pool of possible roles and then once they are confirmed then get to side on the beach.

[Suburban_Plankton]

OK, we’ve had the obligatory “name claim” discussion, we’ve given the new players a stern talking-to, and we’ve had a lovely trip down memory lane. Now it’s time to start getting down and dirty.
Idle Thoughs posted on 1/15 at 10:55 PST (underlining mine):

@Idle_Thoughts

It’s not really my policy, I’m just more likely to do it if I’m vanilla Town because, really, what have I got to lose if I’m Vanilla Town? I’m not very useful (by way of not having any “powers”)…whereas if I were a Detective or other power role, claiming early would be pretty foolish (although I did claim on Day One before when I was a Doc and another time when I was a Vigilante). Mostly all my Day One claims are when I’m vanilla, though…the way I see it, if I’m believed, great…if not, well, Town won’t lose much by mistakenly lynching me.

41 minutes later, he said:

@Idle_Thoughts

Who’s to say I couldn’t say I was Vanilla Town anyway even if I was a Power Role? Really, don’t you think I’ve had thought about that? Let the scum have some WiFoM, I figure.

In the first post (a reply to MentalGuy) he basically says it would be foolish for him to claim if he were not actually Vanilla, and by extension we would be foolish to assume otherwise. Then just a short while later, he changes his story and tells us that it’s all just WIFOM.

vote Idle Thoughts

Let me make it very clear: I am *not *voting **Idle **because of the claim itself. I think the claim itself is a null tell, because he does this pretty much every game. But he’s just given two very different motivations for his claim in a short period of time. This makes me think that neither one is true. He can’t tell us “I’m claiming Vanilla because I always do that, and if I don’t do it this time you’ll all know I’m Scum”, so instead he has to falsify his motivation, and he’s having trouble keeping his story straight.

[Pleonast]

Slowly catching up…

With 18 players, 3 scum => 6 mislynches, 4 => 5, 5 => 4, 6 => 3. I think 4 scum is most likely, unless we have a lot of power roles, which probably means 5.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I don’t understand the complaints about Chronos’ vote analysis program. I’ve done similar computations by hand in past games. It’s simply a way to quantify one’s “gut” feeling about the voting. It’s as useful as any other argument players make–either it seems plausible or it does not. You give it credence or do not.

In any case, the player is making a statement that can be used to evaluate them. It’s unhelpful to discourage players from making statements about their suspicions.

@peekercpa

scum, by nature, are lying every time they post.

Since that is an obvious lie, I will interpret this statement as peeker trying to bluff us with a playful admission of being scum.
vote peekercpa

@Suburban_Plankton

I’ll echo what I said earlier, I am against any sort of a mass claim. Why? A couple reasons:

1. I think it’s contrary to the ‘spirit of the game’. I think enough has been said on this subject in the past that I’m not going to elaborate unless someone wants me to.

Others of us have different opinions, of course. Our goal is gather information that allows us to lynch scum before running out of mislynches. The spirit of the game is to do this via interacting in the thread. A mass claim is certainly within that spirit.

2. The Mod has told us it’s a waste of time

Now, **Mahaloth **might be wrong…maybe the game *is *breakable. But knowing at least some of his history, I’m willing to bet he’s right, and if he’s wrong, and the game is breakable, I’d really prefer not to break it.

In my opinion, the only reason to do a name claim is so that we can try to divine something from the names (or from the ‘goodness/badness’ of the name, or the canon from which it comes, or anything else). And if that information actually tells us anything, then the game is most certainly ‘breakable’. I don’t think Mahaloth would be that careless, so there is no point to such a claim. The fact that people will take such information and try to find patterns in it, even though we know no such patterns exist, is another reason not to do it. It will become a distraction, both my good-meaning Townies who can’t stop analyzing, and by bad-meaning Scum who will try to use the information to sow confusion.

You misunderstand what that means. If the game is not breakable, then it’s okay to do a mass claim. Because we will not break the game.

Breaking game means that one side gains an insurmountable advantage. If the game is well-designed, then a mass claim will not give either side a huge advantage. But it may give one side or the other a slight advantage. And which way it goes will depend on how well it’s played out, because of the skill or lack of skill of the players.

Oh, and since I’m rereading the rules:

@Mahaloth

That kind of talk is discouraging to newer players, too, so I’d prefer not to see it.

is out of line for a moderator to say, in my opinion. It’s the moderator’s job to implement the rules, not to tell players how to play.

@One_And_Only_Wanderers

A mass full claim later in the game when we have actions to assign to people, yeah.

You mean you’d rather have a mass claim when half our power roles are already dead, so town can’t make full use of the information? You’re missing a key advantage of an early mass claim–we still have a full complement of power roles who can starting working with the information.

And you’ve got something else wrong: it’s almost always foolhardy to publicly assign actions to power roles. It makes it too easy for scum to disrupt them. Power roles should always do what they think is best, not what the “town” tells them to do.

When the game mod outright claims his game is unbreakable, you can be sure that a name claim is not going to provide anything for us to go on.

More misunderstanding. Unbreakable means no side gains an huge advantage, not that no one gains anything.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Pleonast

@Suburban_Plankton

I’ll echo what I said earlier, I am against any sort of a mass claim. Why? A couple reasons:

1. I think it’s contrary to the ‘spirit of the game’. I think enough has been said on this subject in the past that I’m not going to elaborate unless someone wants me to.

Others of us have different opinions, of course. Our goal is gather information that allows us to lynch scum before running out of mislynches. The spirit of the game is to do this via interacting in the thread. A mass claim is certainly within that spirit.

2. The Mod has told us it’s a waste of time

Now, **Mahaloth **might be wrong…maybe the game *is *breakable. But knowing at least some of his history, I’m willing to bet he’s right, and if he’s wrong, and the game is breakable, I’d really prefer not to break it.

In my opinion, the only reason to do a name claim is so that we can try to divine something from the names (or from the ‘goodness/badness’ of the name, or the canon from which it comes, or anything else). And if that information actually tells us anything, then the game is most certainly ‘breakable’. I don’t think Mahaloth would be that careless, so there is no point to such a claim. The fact that people will take such information and try to find patterns in it, even though we know no such patterns exist, is another reason not to do it. It will become a distraction, both my good-meaning Townies who can’t stop analyzing, and by bad-meaning Scum who will try to use the information to sow confusion.

You misunderstand what that means. If the game is not breakable, then it’s okay to do a mass claim. Because we will not break the game.

Breaking game means that one side gains an insurmountable advantage. If the game is well-designed, then a mass claim will not give either side a huge advantage. But it may give one side or the other a slight advantage. And which way it goes will depend on how well it’s played out, because of the skill or lack of skill of the players.

Regarding the “spirit of the game”: My problem with mass claims is that it seems they cause people to start trying to find Scum by analyzing PM language, the nature of roles and abilities, etc., rather than by analyzing peoples actions within the game. We may have a fundamental disagreement on this, which is fine. I don’t think advocating for a mass claim is necessarily “Scummy”: I just don’t happen to think it’s worthwhile for Town.
Regarding “game breaking”: I do understand what it means. My point was this. the Mod has told us that the game can’t be broken. Assuming he is correct, then a mass claim isn’t going to give us a great deal of *useful *information. But it *will *give us a great deal of information. The problem is that most of it won’t be useful. It’ll still be out there, though, causing confusion.

If we have a mass claim, then two things will occur because of it.

1. Some well meaning Town players will analyze the information to death trying to suss out some sort of pattern they can use to catch Scum, instead of spending their time in more useful pursuits
2. Scum will engage in, and encourage, the behavior in Point 1 wherever it is advantageous to them, thus generating increasing amounts of ‘misinformation’.

So if the game is unbreakable, a mass claim is going to provide more ‘misinformation’ than ‘useful information’, and the confusion caused by trying to sort the two out more than outweighs any usefulness from the claim. And if **Mahaloth **is wrong, and the game actually *is *breakable, and we break it…well, that’s just not ‘fun’ to me.
Of course, this is all theoretical on my part, because I have never actually seen a mass claim in a game that I’ve played. It’s always talked about, and the same people make the same arguments every time, but we never actually go through with it.

I asked this question earlier, but it may have gotten lost, so I’ll ask it again: how often have you seen a ‘successful’ mass claim early in the game? In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, such a thing doesn’t actually exist.

[Pleonast]

@Suburban_Plankton

the Mod has told us that the game can’t be broken. Assuming he is correct, then a mass claim isn’t going to give us a great deal of *useful *information.

There’s your problem. The first statement does not imply the second. An unbreakable game means we won’t get game-breaking information. Useful information does not have to be game-breaking.

I asked this question earlier, but it may have gotten lost, so I’ll ask it again: how often have you seen a ‘successful’ mass claim early in the game? In my (admittedly somewhat limited) experience, such a thing doesn’t actually exist.

I can’t recall there ever being any mass claim on Day One or Two of a game.