For me it was very, very hard. The fear of rejection was paralyzing. I’m sure the fear was a turnoff for the few I did ask. I’m pretty sure Ms. P initiated as often as not during her dating years.
I see in this thread that 20-something women are a bit more proactive about taking the initiative with men to whom they’re attracted.
But that seems to me to be a new thing.
I’m 60 now. And I’ve been off the market for ten years. But before then, I had plenty of experience, ranging from very short term to very long term relationships. Plenty of rejection.
And, universally, what Beckdawrek describes is what women of every age, teens through forties, did. No woman I know or knew would dream of asking a man out. She’d be insulted by the very idea. She would be perfectly happy to send out signals of interest, and let a man know a positive response to being asked out was pretty much a sure thing, but she wouldn’t do it.
I was freshly divorced (as in, the ink wasn’t yet dry on the decree), she was freshly out of a bad long term relationship. We’d been friendly acquaintances for years. The sort of friendship some people need for blowing off steam (verbally) in a corporate environment, where neither is going to go crying to HR if the double entendres go too far. So out of the blue she kicked it up a notch with comments like, “Where do you wanna go for lunch? Sandwiches? Chinese? Your place?” “Har har har”, says I, “you’re such a good pal to try & cheer me up.” After a couple days of this (and come to find out was interpreted as a series of brutal rejections from me) I finally started picking up what she was putting down and ended up with The Missus. Lucky for me she knew my flavor of cluelessness and didn’t give up. But evidently the opportunity I seized upon was the last she was going to put out there because nobody could be as dense as I was. It must have been rejection. So I guess ladies if you’re feeling rejected remember, we’ve had threads about how women need to be vigilant in the dating scene because of dangerous guys. Guys aren’t accustomed to being careful in that way. Nor, frankly, do they all have a good idea of what getting hit on looks like, because so many women won’t take that first step–so more often than not it’s fine to err on the side of, “He’d want me if he wasn’t so damned clueless” and be a little more forward. Until he says some variant of “Nope.” Then you have to stop.
I don’t know if there’s any way to really answer that. I’ve long thought that women should take the initiative more often; even if it doesn’t work, you’ll learn what men go through when they’re asking you.
I’ve told the story here several times. I once gave a woman flowers on Valentine’s Day and invited her to a play. The next day she asked if i could get an extra ticket so she could bring a date. Rejection sucks, even if the object of your affection doesn’t know she’s doing it.
Especially if she doesn’t know she’s doing it.
Yes, they’re based on the premise being what you removed: he can’t find his cojones with both hands, a lamplight and a case of blue balls.
For many women there is a difference between “initiate” and “verbalize”: we’ve been taught that we’re supposed to indicate our interest without actually saying things out loud, except for situations where it’s specifically Our Turn, such as Ladies’ Choice songs during a dance. Once you’ve met a few guys who ran away when being asked for a Ladies’ Choice (seriously, a bunch of guys who five minutes earlier had been strutting cockerels ran and hid in the bathroom) or a few who wouldn’t take “no” for an answer… experience reinforces the social message and “oh hell I’m not going to be the one to ask” becomes even stronger. Now: if you’re talking with a woman and she touches you in a way that feels nice? Call that a strong hint, please! And if you’re interested, take it! Without help from your wingmen Mr Jim (Beam) or Mr Johnnie (Walker), pretty please with sugar on top!
From my experience, I’d say the anxiety levels are about even. I’ve twice been asked out by women that were moving to another state the next day, having waited until it was do-or-die (and one used a good bit of liquid courage). And I’ve seen guys who pride themselves on their courage act like talking to someone they like is storming Omaha Beach.
I’d say women take being turned down harder men, which is saying something.
I haven’t counted precisely but I feel pretty sure that a majority of the relationships I’ve had started with the woman initiating it (either very bluntly or more or less subtly) or re-establishing contact after turning down a first approach on my part.
I’ve always been rather shy, so that partly explains it but in my experience, it’s pretty clear that women can and do initiate things when they’re interested.
I have found the same, unfortunately.
Yes it is. Now you know
Sincerely
A Painfully Shy Man (when it comes to romance)
I don’t seem to be particularly shy to most people, but thats 30ish years of work experience and my 'job persona". I can seem rather disinterested while working no matter how much I was mentally drooling over someone.
Who taught you that?
Not any more or less than men. In my youth I was probably more nervous about asking women out than they were.
Uh society. You been living in a cave?
As others have mentioned. Any serious GF I’ve ever had (past 28), she initiated. I’ve done all the ask’n out part first though.
I am very averse to being rejected, so I could never bring myself to ask a man out. I certainly do appreciate how difficult it is to do for men and I have a great deal of sympathy for them because of this.
But it is also very difficult to reject someone. At least for me. I know I’ve been on more than one date that I didn’t really want to go on, simply because I didn’t want to hurt the guys feelings.
Romance is just a lot harder than it probably should be.
This is interesting.
I would have thought in this age of online dating instagram etc that young and attractive women would have plenty of guys hitting them up.
And if a woman can have dozens of suitors online that were sufficiently attractive to them why would they have to initiate?
I see. So it’s a form of toxic femininity then?
No, I’d classify that as toxic masculinity.
As a man I can say that only one woman has ever asked me out. She later divorced me. So my advice is don’t do it.
I think you have to put online dating in a totally different category. It’s a completely different dynamic and who initiates isn’t very important.
Absolutely.
I think a lot of women do initiate, the just do it more subtly. They might not say “Hey, you wanna go out on a date?” But they will definitely give off signals that they’re into you. So, essentially, they’re making the “first move”, and the guy asking her out is making the second.
I am astonished that this is even a conversation worthy of having at all. I truly would not have guessed that such elements so interwoven, rightly or wrongly, into the culture of our society would be treated as such a question mark by educated members of that
society (who i am (perhaps too generously?) assuming have had some level of normalish human interaction with the opposite sex in meatspace reality)
Of course its common for the woman to be reticent or even unwilling to make a first move or give that first overt signal. Basically, the men have historically been, and still are, for the most part, the ones expected to first have to Do Something
Nowhere is this cultural gridwork more evident (or at least used to be when sites like OkCupid, PoF and other similar sites were en vogue) than in online dating. Men always messaged the women first, women collected all their various “first messages” from their various suitors and then selected their men from the litter. Certain predictable patterns emerge in such a dynamic.
Basically, hot attracts hot and physical metrics are the only things used in assessing a suitors potential. Intelligence is of minimal value (nor can it even be assessed or gauged in any meaningful way on a dating site), as is sense of humor, blah blah blah and blah blah. Money does help make ya a little cuter but the bottom line is its all about looks. People, both men and women cry to high hell that its not just about sexual attraction but no, that’s exclusively what it’s about.
Now keep in mind im talking about online dating, not dating in general. And im also not talking about every single online dating site, former or present. Im talking about mainstream sites that were popular right before the advent of Tinder and other swipe and match dating apps. And, i feel i also need to say I’m not talking about every single user of these. There are always different types of dating/matchmaking apps that cater to different segments of our society. These sites will operate with different business models, depending on who they are marketing to. There are always going to exceptions to any rule.