How do I handle this? (marriage problems)

I’m a girl and I don’t see ‘hint dropping’ as creepy. Hubby and I do a lot of it on the nights we are hoping for sex. In my mind it is like flirting for a while except we didn’t go out on a date and flirt all evening over dinner and dancing - instead we flirted during housework and other things that make up our married life.

Sometimes things will go beyond our control (with small children that is inevitable) and a planned night of sex doesn’t happen but we are very up front about the whole thing and neither of us takes it personally.

::and ivylass and auntie em flee into the night, Phlsophr hot on their trails::

Whoah, honey is that you? Seriously… you just did exactly what I’m complaining about. Your perspective is pure fiction. Did you even read the OP? Or maybe you’re trying a little too hard to read between the lines. The way I explained it in the OP is the way it happened.

To everyone else, thanks for the advice and the humor! This is something I have to learn to deal with, I guess. Hopefully I can improve matters by focusing on her feelings rather than her fantasy land.

I’m with tanookie. The only time I’m bugged by “Hint-Dropping” is when I’ve already made it clear that it ain’t gonna happen, yet the “Hinting” persists. Then it’s just annoying, and yeah, in those cases, it does kill any slim chance that I might change my mind.

Nope, not materialistic at all really. She does have a tendency to be a packrat though, so in some ways. “stuff” is important.

Hey Auntie and Ivy - You forgot to look in your back seat! :slight_smile:

This is good advice. I have to realize that for her, the details of what happened are tangential to the issue.

If, out of the blue, she says, “I feel hurt because you kicked me in the head.”

And I reply, “Huh??? I didn’t kick you in the head!”

She feels like I am avoiding the issue. The way she wants me to respond is more like:

“I don’t want you to feel hurt, I’m really sorry. What can I do to make you feel better?”

I have to keep reminding myself this is the biggest difference between men and women. Men are most interested in the facts of the case and for women, the facts are secondary (waaaaaay secondary) to the feelings of the parties involved.

The solution: learn to say “yes dear” and “sorry dear” and walk away. Your sanity will thank you.

Whether you are right or wrong is not important and you can argue til you’re blue in the face, you won’t win. So save the time and energy and repeat after me…

“yes dear”…“sorry dear”

And YOU forgot to look under the backseat!

Ivylass! Activate the rear ejector seat!

Not all women feel facts are secondary to feelings. I happen to believe facts are very important myself.

Also you know how she wants you to respond so you have two choices… keep going in circles with her while you discuss facts and she discusses feelings or give her what she wants.

It may also help for you to discuss this with her at a time when you are not disagreeing over something.

I’ve changed my mind. You’re the crazy one.

It does sound like a fairly normal, garden-variety communication problem. Given that your sex life is normally great, she might have simply felt guilty that she wasn’t as interested as she would like to be. She might be afraid to disappoint/hurt you, and does not want to seem to be rejecting you. If you’re as caring and concerned as you seem to be, she may feel extra guilty about the seeming rejection and feel caught between the proverbial “rock and hard place” (Heh)

Could I ask: Are you as open to her as you think you may be? Not being judgemental here, just asking you to take a closer look at yourself: Can your wife be really honest with you?

I’m thinking, she sounds exactly like me in my first marriage. I learned over time, that there was NO WAY I could tell my ex that I wasn’t in the mood. He would say “Oh, it’s okay, no problem.” Then the next day, the punishment would begin. He would not come home from work, not call, go to a strip joint & come home covered in perfume, spend money foolishly, or some such. In other words do everything he could to register his displeasure without actually saying he was pissed. (Yes very immature) I felt (perhaps subconsciously at the time) that I had no choice but to create an argument in order to get out of having sex (which was always unfulfilling for me unless I was in the mood) or give in and feel resentful for doing so. There wasn’t much middle ground, being pleasant about my refusal had the same effect, punishment of some kind. Yes, terrible lack of communication which is a large part of the reason he is my ex.

In my experience, (to be really simplistic & generalize like hell) men will play the flirting game in order to get to the sex part. Women may enjoy flirting for it’s own sake sometimes and do not have to “be horny” to flirt and be playful sexually. (Obviously)

Again, to state the obvious: Sometimes, it has been known to happen that men will then call the woman a “tease” and feel they’ve been “led on”. Now the woman feels punished for partaking in a fun activity which for her, does not have to end in a sexual denouement to be fulfilling in it’s own right. What choice is she then left with? To coldly refuse to play?

So, I guess I’m asking you to maybe try examining yourself a little more, and see if there could be a time or two when you may have inadvertently “punished” your wife for a seeming rejection. Not saying that you did it in such a stupid and broad way as my ex used to, but that there could be some even subconscious difference in your attitude or behaviour towards her if you feel you’ve been rejected. (Which is totally understandable in any case, however she really is not rejecting you, just the sexual activity at that moment.)

Please, please don’t read that I’m trying to blame you, I’m just trying to suggest a possible reason behind your wife’s behaviour that could possibly shed some more light here.

As far as her “shifts in reality”, sounds to me like she’s almost not sure she has the right to have the feelings she’s having. Therefore, she must create something that she feels gives her the grounds. Persistent efforts to communicate, and encouraging her to examine herself at length couldn’t hurt either.

Calling either the OP or his wife “crazy” is most unhelpful, IMO.

Really?!

Man, women are WEIRD.

Maybe this explains why I don’t get along with them too well. :wink:

dil, even though you may not see it as “begging for sex”, she might have felt like you were pestering her.

I feel that way with my SO sometimes. He’ll mention something about being horny and I’ll let him know I’m interested when we get the next opportunity. And I really am serious - I don’t make a habit of saying things I don’t mean. But then he’ll continue to drop hints and make his horniness known. It gets tiring and completely kills my desire.

It would be much better to stop talking about sex or groping her (not saying you do, just in general) and concentrate on making her day easy and loving and as humorous as possible if you really want to have sex that night.

Rear ejector seat activated!!!

Ooops…looks like he landed in a bramble bush, You better step on it…he looks pissed!! Let me toss him some of these old Hustlers, they might distract him enough so we get away!

Sorry Dil, that is so not a fair statement you just made. I am all about bitching about facts and derivations and subtle nuances about facts and basing emotions on information, AND last time I checked, yerp, still no penis.

What I’m reading between the lines was that you were stating repeatedly your desire for sex that night. What I’m also reading between the lines is that in this particular instance, she didn’t feel like she could say no to you. I’m basing my opinion on this statement: * Eventually, she admitted to me that in order to avoid “disappointing” me, she convinced HERSELF that there had been a miscommunication even though there had been none. * I’m further basing my opinion on this statement: If you hadn’t given all these demands and expectations, we would be cuddling naked right now and probably moving on to do more. It sounds to me like HER perception was that you pressured her for sex all night and (because she didn’t feel like she could give you a flat out “no”) you developed the expectation that you would indeed be getting some lovin’. SO from her POV, yeah, there were demands and expectations. It also sounds like she did at least TRY to give you a clue, by telling you she was Pre-Monstral (see other’s posts about ramifications of said statement) if her cycles match what the other women said, then she did actually try to communicate.

Agree, you have basis to be confused as you got quite a barrelful of mixed messages.

Agree, convincing yourself that something didn’t happen in order to deal with an unacceptable outcome is a BAD thing. No argument there.

Agree, I know other women who flip flop on crap all the time, and operate from a position of emotional response. Drives me nuckin’ futs.

However, based on the mixed messages from the above, it sounds like your wife has a very potent defense mechanism. For this specific instance it sounds like she’s so worried about telling you “no” that it’s necessary for her to create an alternate reality. That sounds very problematic to me. When you have your arguments where the alternate reality comes up, is it over an issue that has become emotionally charged (eg - she is going to have to bear your disappointment and feel guilty about it)?

Just some thoughts.

According to his OP, which he has asserted is exactly what happened and is not just his view of what happened, his wife is delusional. In layman’s terms, she is crazy.

However, I don’t believe that his OP is the word of god, as he insists it is. I believe he can’t see that his wife got defensive and made up a story to appease him. He disagrees with me, which is crazy because I am rilly smart.

Oooh, look, here’s half a stale Twinkie, too! That oughta appease him.

I dunno – I’m not real sympathetic to either party in the original story.

Sure, the wife should’ve been more upfront with her nondesire to have sex. The way it went down was pretty weird, and I can see how frustrating it’ be to dil.

On the other hand, I really really don’t think that arguing her into confessing her guilt is a good response to this situation – I think it’d be much better to say, “I really misunderstood your signals tonight, apparently. Just so we’re clear, when I talk about ‘getting naked and snuggling,’ or ‘going to practice so we can have a baby one of these days,’ I’m talking about sex, okay? And if you’re not wanting to have sex, it really helps me not feel frustrated and angry if you can tell me so ahead of time. Now, what can I do in the future to help you stay more in the mood?”

And don’t let her answer the question with generalities. If she says, “Don’t be so demanding!” ask her for specifics: does she not want you to make jokes about practicing for making babies? does she not want you to mention a time frame? Make it clear that you NEED to know specifically what bothered her.

If you approach it that way, I can see both of y’all coming out of the conversation with a clearer sense of how to get along with one another.

If you approach it in terms of, “my wife is crazy and doesn’t care about reality and believes anything she wants in order to suit her own wishes,” she’s likely to come out of it with her own impression: “My husband is pushy and demanding and insists on winning any argument, and I’ll be damned if I’ll let a jerk like that get into my pants.” And then she definitely won’t let dil do her.

Daniel

Sorry Pal, she’s cheating on you. That’s her way of avoiding sex with you. Because, at this point, she doesn’t want to cheat on the “other” guy with YOU!!!

Keep us posted!