This isn’t exactly a fact related question, but I wasn’t sure where else to put it. If you wanna move it to a more appropriate location that’s fine by me.
So now a brief rundown of the pertinant facts then a clear extremely rude rundown of what I want to say.
My husband and I are both Athiests. My in-laws (my husband’s brother and the brother’s wife) are both Fundies. By this I mean they believe in long haired women who wear dresses and aren’t allowed to talk during the first meeting, which they attend, well religiously. He hates gays, some races (well mostly Jews) and everyone not of his religious persuation. (which includes Catholics, Pentecostals, and of course any of the non-christian sects). They hate a lot of people and are very very adamant about prosletizing.
Recently they had a “meeting” with my Mother In Law (hubby’s parents are divorced) about some “concerns” they had about my daughter’s soul. She’s not going to Sunday School. She doesn’t know about Jesus or God and by golly, she’s already TWO! They proposed to mom in law that we have a “family meeting” to discuss this problem. Mom in law is a very moderate christian with some very odd but harmless (IMO) dogma but at that point nobody actually knew we were athiests (due to some fear on my part about how the in-laws would take that news pop-in-law is a spitting image of the fundie son)
Now here’s what I want to say to them.
“Excuse me, did you birth/father my child when I wasn’t looking? What gives you the right to go BEHIND my back to scheme about “saving” my baby’s soul? Listen, she’s NOT a group parenting problem. If you want a baby to teach hate to so badly, here use my bed, boink your wife and HAVE YOUR OWN GODDAMN KIDS! I don’t want you to EVER EVER EVER think you have the right (becuse youre her aunt and uncle ) to parent my child and teach her beliefs contrary to our parenting plan? Are you crazy? Do you want me to tell you’re future children what I think of your God and the people who believe in him??? Should we have a meeting to discuss that you’re going to be teaching intolerance and hate? How would you react?? HUH?? My daughter is going to be encouraged to learn about ALL religions and sects when she is old enough to be curious herself. When SHE wants to know. She will be encouraged to think about it and decide for herself. No capital T TRUTH. She decides. AND GUESS WHAT?!? She’s A BABY! She think pooping in her pants is a riot. I think it’s completely wrong to “witness” to a toddler, or even a small child. SO BUTT OUT. BACK OFF. STAY AWAY FROM MY BABY WITH YOUR HATE.”
So that’s what I feel like saying, but I want to be friends with them afterwards. I need tact, and Im out of ideas. How can I get the message across without alienating them. Im just looking for suggestions and ideas.
Have you tried just saying to them that your baby’s upbringing is your concern and not theirs? If they want to bring up a child in a particular way, then they should have one of their own and stop foisting their beliefs and parenting advice on those who don’t want it?
If that doesn’t work, go with your original plan. I rather like it. Oh, and can I have a front row seat, please? Did I mention that I love fireworks?
Seems to me as if you got your hands full there my friend.
Firstly, they aint such good Christians if they hate most everyone who isn’t of their religion., hardly a Christian attitude doncha know?
Second. They have no rights whatsoever to interfere with your kids, to try to influence them in any way is totally wrong. You have to tell them as politely as possible to leave it out. Explain that your daughter is exactly that and when the time is right she’ll make up her own mind about religion.
Third. You have to tread very carefully around all this, the last thing you want is a feud.
You might point out to them that evangelism, witnessing, or whatever they wish to call it is like a wet noodle. It can’t be pushed on anyone.
It requires a good example of kindness and concern first and then the noodle MIGHT be led to their way of thinking, religion, or whatever.
Unfortunately, I think you are going to have hard feelings no matter what you say. Have you discussed this with your husband? I think Annie-Xmas has had the best idea so far - calmly say you are her parents and change the subject. Then keep changing it as many times as necessary to get the point across that you will not discuss her religious upbringing with them.
I would only bring it up if it comes to you first. Then whn it does, tell them you want to bring up your child how you see fit. then curse them to hell.
If you want to keep the really ugly threats in reserve for later, IANAL but I am pretty certain that interfering in a child’s religious education against the wishes of a parent is custodial interference.
Crap… forgot I was in General Questions… please disregard my previous post. I am NOT a lawyer and thus should not be giving even the appearance of legal advice. However, when I was practicing with an organized coven, we would not accept students under the age of eighteen without the express written permission of both parents for the reasons I stated in my above post. Laws in your jurisdiction may vary, and we may have been erring on the side of extreme caution due to prejudice against non-traditional religious groups.
Not all that relevant, but last night my wife said she got some literature for me when the Jehovah’s Witless stopped by. Apparently the last time she stopped by my wife was just about to sit down for a cup of tea, and invited the JW in. They proceeded to have a pleasant discussion about “family values” and the JW was astounded to learn that godless heathens could actually have morals and agree on so many things related to child rearing and contributing to society.
Yeah - I’d tell the in-laws to fuck off. Tell MIL separately from the others. And make sure hubby and you are on the same page.
Also tell your kid she doesn’t have to believe the religious crap others are selling, and not to let them make her feel guilty.
If they want to make this a divisive issue within the family, that’s their choice. Absent extreme circumstances akin to abuse, you DON’T tell other people how to raise their kids. (And a difference of religious philosphy is NOT an extreme circumstance.)
I have held to the belief that it is the spouse whose parents are the problem that should deal with it, he is the one with the history, he should talk to them…
I would definitely recommend talking with your spouse and making sure you’re in agreement before proceeding with something that may cause family stress. Remember that from their perspective things like stepping on toes, or secular rules about childrearing are as nothing compared to her immortal soul, and since they KNOW they’re right don’t expect them to respond such
Second the motion. You should not have to prepare a big speech and defend yourself while your husband sits in the next room eating chips.
Other points:
This belongs in IMHO
How did you find out about their little meeting, anyway? Did your husband tell you? If they told him all about it, then he missed the chance to nip it in the bud.
You have no obligation to participate in a family meeting where you’re going to be ambushed.
What does “goddamn” mean to an atheist?
No matter what happens, you will not be friends with them afterwards, and this should not bother you.
you need to discuss this thoroughly with your husband, particularly since it’s his brother
you are of course welcome to bring up your child in any healthy way you like
you undoubtedly know that Fundamentalists tend to be persistent and unswayed by any argument or different viewpoint
I certainly sympathise with your annoyance at their arrogance. :mad:
(I teach at a school and we accidentally invited a fundamentalist to make a religious presentation. After he scared the hell out of the pupils with talk of eternal damnation for doing almost anything, there was a discussion. It turned out this ‘preacher’ was ignorant of much, e.g. when the Gospels were written - he thought they were contemporary :eek: and so on.)
Sadly it’s fairly easy to visualise what will happen if you follow various choices of action. I hope things work out.
I definitely agree that you need to talk to spousal unit first. Although I tend to agree that he should deal with his family, I also understand that there are times when it works better for the not-related member of a couple to deal with inlaws. Either way, the two of you need to absolutely be in COMPLETE agreement about limits on this discussion, to be sure you don’t get divided and conquered by guilt-inducing inlaws. Because one way or another, chances are you’re going to end up with some seriously pissed off people.
Whatever the outcome, you’re going to want to take serious consideration of whether you ever want to leave your child alone with any of your inlaws. IME, people like this will often completely ignore your stated expectations, no matter what you do or say, and try to sneak proselytization in at any chance they get (usually scaring the crap out of the child in the process). This would include time at the grandparents, unless you’re absolutely sure that MIL will stop them, which sounds unlikely.
A friend’s sister recently had this conversation with their mom:
Mom: “your kids are almost teenagers and could decide to get baptized soon, I’d really like to talk to them about accepting Jesus and getting baptized.”
Sis: “well, mom, you can talk to them as long as you’re willing to follow my rules about it. First, all statements will be in the form of “I think that” or “I believe that”. You can not make any statements claiming absolute truth, or that you KNOW what’s right, etc. Second, no mention of Hell. Third, no running down other religions, in any manner. (and so on) Now, what would you like to say to them?”
Mom: “That’s fine, I’ll just tell them about… (goes into usual routine for fundie proselytizers).”
Sis: “Well, in that case, you won’t be talking to them about this. Thanks for the offer, though. Bye!”
I’m not sure about Sis, but my friend has already flatly stated that her child will never be left alone with her mother, under any circumstance.
discuss with husband to ensure that the two of you will present a unfied front ;
he should speak with his parents to make it clear that the two of you are not interesting in any childrearing advice from his brother and sister and law, and will be offended if the matter is raised;
If the in-laws raise the issue, politely decline to discuss it. “Thanks for your concern, but we don’t believe we need any help in raising our children.” might be a good line;
If they continue to raise the issue, warn them that their continued pressure is offensive, and risks a family breach.
I hate this shit, by the way. A good friend of mine is a great, stable person. She’s in her 30’s, owns two condominiums, and has a well-paying career. She’s lived on her own for over 10 years. Her parents live in a farming area 200 miles away, and she visits them several times a year, usually on holidays. Her SO has been in the picture for about two years, and they are talking marriage. Before one trip, she told her parents that her boyfriend would be coming with, and sounded them out on the shared bed issue. Parents were fine with it. (Somewhat relevant here is the size of the parent’s house – if the bed wasn’t shared, one half of the couple would be on the floor or on a couch.)
Sounds great, right? Nope. Friend’s sister and BIL are fundamentalist Christians. (BIL seems to be the hardliner.) BIL (not sister), calls my friend’s Dad and suggests that he shouldn’t allow his 35 year old daughter to share a bed with her SO, and states that he and his family won’t visit that holiday if father doesn’t change his mind. Dad gets mad (Yeah, Dad!), but elderly, sick Mom is in tears because the familiy holiday might be ruined. Friend caves to preserve the peace.
MIL filled me in as we are very close friends and she was concerned.
Yeah, I know. I wanted to avoid the dramatic of that.
Its a cussword that would offend them, and I was going for offensive.
My child will always come first and I am mostly worried because of ackwardness at family functions. (which we have a LOT of becuase we have the 2 separate divorced parents).
Other points of interest that I should have mentioned.
My hubby and I have discussed this at length. We’re both on the same page in terms of telling them to fuck off. I was more hoping for some ways to tell them more nicely than a tirade, and I am still VERY angry.
The sister in law and I have been friends outside of the “family” for a long time. That is, we were close friends before I realized/accepted that I’m an athiest (which was about a year ago) and we grew up as fundies together and married religious fundies together. I realize that seems very odd. But in my defence I was involved with and married to my hubby several years before she got involved with my brother in law
Basically, that’s the relationship I was hoping to save. I could care less about my brother in law.
3.MIL and my hubby and I all had a long talk about the ground rule already and about what being an athiest actually means. She was pleasantly surprised and is very accepting about where we stand.
Thanks for the advice tho. I appreciate the opinions of people not emotionally invested in all this.
