You wouldn’t, because we don’t do that. Because we grew up in times and places where gay people didn’t, and we’re VERY uncomfortable with anything that overt, even though our general deportment and body language makes it clear that we’re a couple, and we’re out to absolutely everybody.
That’s some of the damage I’m talking about. I can’t hold hands with my husband in public because we’re afraid of the reaction we might get. I think that’s something people in this thread aren’t understanding: once you start declaring that you have the right to control a teacher’s private life, and decide what is and isn’t acceptable behaviour, you’re actively participating in stigmatization. Women are already in a terrible position with regard to sexuality: they have to walk a hair-thin line to avoid being slutty or frigid, either of which risks their not being taken seriously. Female teachers have to stress about clothes, shoes, hair, jewellery, and makeup in a way that their male colleagues don’t, and although it would seem like earning cash for sex films is worlds away from earrings, they’re two sides of the same coin.
By all means forbid people from sexual behaviour that is non-consensual. That’s a line that is pretty easy to defend, morally. Illegal activity is actually greyer, as being gay (well, doing certain gay acts) was illegal until not that long ago, and sex outside of marriage, and all sorts of things.
I don’t view being a paid sex worker as a private life. It’s the opposite. Income to report and all that. This is not an expression of love. It’s commerce.
I feel bad for the discrimination gay people have undergone. But you do need to understand the difference here. When explaining things to young people, it can be explained fairly simply that sometimes people are attracted to their own gender. And it’s all good so long as people treat each other well and love each other. After all of this, it’s kind of easy to explain.
Whereas paid porn, where do I start. “Billy and Susie, sometimes men get really, really horny. And they don’t have a girlfriend. They can’t get one or don’t want to leave the house to try. Or maybe they have a girlfriend but are still really, really horny. And maybe she will give them all the sex they want but they still think about other ways of having sex. So they pleasure themselves. And there are pictures of pretty girls or stories that they could do this for free. Or movies for free. But they want something more, and will pay money to see more sex acted out in a movie. So people get together and have sex, film it, women are in these movies, women are acting in these movies and getting paid to do this, providing a service for the men so they can masturbate and orgasm about this specific sex act they want to see, or this naked women’s body performing the sex act that they want to see.”
I think I pretty much have it there.
And I don’t think a child growing up needs to know about ANY of this. Because it’s not essential to life. I know it exists. But it’s not essential, it really isn’t. I’m fine with people finding out about it later or not at all. Masturbation exists, it is a healthy release. But people don’t need to pay for porn to do it. And I don’t think parents need to walk through that whole deal, unlike gay relationships where today, they can be explained to people simply and understood easily. It’s a completely different thing.
I’m a hetero male. I don’t usually go down this road, some guys are constantly apologizing on behalf of all men or some crap like that. But really this is all women performing a service so men can have yet another masturbatory orgasm. And right now I’m fairly disgusted by that. As the “target audience” for the paid porn. It’s just more women in sex work so men can have their damn orgasms. That’s not love. It’s commerce, and it’s gross to me right now.
“The Penis is evil! The Penis shoots Seeds, and makes new Life to poison the Earth with a plague of men, as once it was. But the Gun shoots Death and purifies the Earth of the filth of Brutals. Go forth, and kill! Zardoz has spoken.
Also, STOP WATCHIN’ THE PR0N!!!”
And she didn’t like the special treatment so she went ahead and put a bigger decal one that spanned the entire back window. She must love the attention that gets from the rando randys in Ohio. She probably attracts pervos eyeing the kiddos in the back seat. Possible there are air tags riding along her bumpers. But hey she’s just having fun advertising her spicy cookies for sale.
Not taking any position here myself (I’m still wondering what people think about my rabbi or cantor and congregational reaction question) but amused that we have the response that hiding what you do means you know it is wrong, and let others know what you do is worse …
Im so confused. Are you saying “Anyone who has ever made a porn video can never be a teacher becauae if the kids find out, they will be irresistibly twmpted ro go watch it, and having watched it, they will suffer a unique psychological trauma”?
Wouldnt that apply to anyone who has ever done porn? Everyone in porn presumably knows children in some capacity, or will later in life. Are they risking damaging those kids in a way that is unethical?
I mean, I would very much be against showing students porn of any kind, perhaps especially porn someone they knew was in. But if a lod is uncomfortable at the idea of seeing something and has no reason to go looking for it, they won’t. The ones who have unsupervised access and do go looking will turn it off if /when they become uncomfortable.
I was pretty clear early on that private communities are different (though i might think they are a bunch of bigots). The teacher works for the government, not the parents, and the school is there to serve the interests of the students and community as a whole, not just the portion that have minor children.
Since we all metaphorically blur our faces here I don’t know all y’all’s occupation so I’m really curious. Do we have any teachers, and for this question that means any adult that works in ECE or K-12 schools whether in the classroom, admin, office staff, facilities, etc., that supports this teacher being fired?
I would be upset if the board responded to complaints to kick out a congregational member but the congregational moral leadership?
FWIW it seems to me that some here consider teachers to be akin to rabbis in this regard. They look upon them as teaching more than math or reading and are wanting to place them as teachers of values to their children as well. And if they don’t live the values they question if they will teach them.
I don’t agree that such is part of the teacher’s job but it seems to me that that attitude is not restricted to those who view porn as evil or such.
Religion is a different thing. Judging and controling people and policing their morals is the whole point of it. So of course they are going to punish anyone that they think steps outside the line. It would be like diving in the ocean and getting mad when you get wet.
Maybe cause, “oh gee I don’t need this crap. I’m making much more on Onlyfans, who needs sniveling kids and irate parents”
Or
"But…but…I love my teaching career so much, I posted porn to pay off my loans and to go back for a higher degree"
Not buying it.
She did a side hustle for money, amusement, shits and giggles. Whatever.
At the detriment of her career.
She hid her face to not get caught.
Sorry, can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I’m not getting into this argument again, but I just want to say that I object to the characterization of “ruining a teacher’s career” that’s been made here many times, as if that’s the objective of the school or the school board, which seems to also imply that they’re exacting some sort of moral retribution. The administration is simply saying that they don’t want that individual teaching children in the school or school district over which they have jurisdiction. The individual is free to pursue a teaching job elsewhere.
Now if the argument is going to be that under the circumstances no school anywhere is going to hire such a teacher – which is quite likely true – then those blithely defending a teacher’s right to have a side gig as a sex worker might want to reflect on why that is.
The argument that societal values are terribly misguided and their own personal moral values are the right ones is going to take a lot of evidence to be persuasive, and so far has not worked in the courts. But this is not even about the morality of sex work. We know how it’s generally regarded in society, rightly or wrongly. Teachers should know, too. We can decouple the argument from any moral questions and simply say that objectively, teachers engaging in such activity have exercised extremely poor judgment, and that alone is a major liability.
You’ve brought this up again and again. I frankly find it disturbing that anyone who claims to be a teacher cannot see why teachers who spend every day with young children must be held to higher standards than a car salesman or a plumber. This is not disrespecting teachers – it’s the opposite: it acknowledges their value and influence, and the high expectations we have of them.
Note that when I said that it’s “going to take a lot of evidence to be persuasive”, I didn’t mean “poor analogies that imply that since society was wrong about some things in the past, it must be wrong about everything”. Societal norms have also been right about a lot of things.
The argument that societal values are correct and their own personal moral values are the right ones is going to take a lot of evidence to be persuasive, and so far has not been presented.
Malum In Se meaning “That which is wrong in itself”
Malum Prohibitum meaning “That which is wrong because it is prohibited”
Our legal dopers could elaborate where I sure can’t on how both can be valid, enforceable laws. But I have not yet seen any convincing post that sex, consensual between the adult participants and not purposely shown to outside parties, is anything but Malum Prohibitum. If your kids’ teacher can’t do it “because… children!”) then the cashier at Wendy’s, etc. etc. can’t either.
It’s bad enough we grant bad cops qualified immunity, but here I’m reading how teachers must take on qualified liability.
My “they” was to the broader question of a private community or organization having the right to kick someone out for whatever reason. In many cases, I might think of such a community. In others, I might not. As far as this particular issue, I’m not going to take a hypothetical position on a hypothetical situation. There are too many variables.
I think of teachers and schools as ways our society transmits values. I just don’t think a value I want to transmit is “anyone who has engaged in sex work is tainted”. I also don’t want anyone to transmit the message that “sex work is value-neutral”. In this case, I think it’s the school that is transmitting the value I am uncomfortable with. If the teacher had told her students she had an OF in the same way she might talk about her gardening hobby or her grandkids, I’d be okay with that resulting in disciplinary action. But she wasn’t driven out because of a value she transmitted. She’s being driven out because of a value she holds.
What if instead of having an OF, she had one of those silly sex-positive “marital aid” Tupperware parties, where women pass around big dildos and get a little tipsy and maybe buy a vibrator? It would be really, really wrong for a teacher to tell her students about such a thing, but it’s not wrong to do it. And if someone at the party took a picture of the teacher posing with a giant phallus and shared it with someone on the school board, or with their child, who passed the photo around, I think we’d see the issue was the person who shared the photo, not the teacher.
Why do people keep saying this. This is not about color or gender or sexual preferences or religion or marital status.
This is not a protected class.
This teacher chose to do this.
I have my opinions on why. They mean nothing.
Her reasons are her own.
Again, she chose to do this.
Again: She made a conscious choice. She made it.
Not nature, not birth. She chose.
How hard is that to understand?
The whole big thing about society/ the school board/ the community at large not saying it’s ok is different.
I’ll say this, she knew they wouldn’t accept it so she hid her face.
