One of these is published by the Bureau of Justice Statistics of the Department of Justice, using statistics collected by the National Crime Victimization Survey, which is sponsored by the BJS and conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau. And the other is…well, I don’t know who they are.
But so far nobody’s claiming that men don’t have the option of just leaving.
The best counterargument seems to be “gee, RTFirefly overstepped by using the word ‘typically’ with respect to men escalating when the women they were abusing tried to leave.” Well, maybe I did overstep and it doesn’t happen more often than not. It just happens an awful lot of the time, based on what’s happened to women I’ve actually known (one’s estranged husband tried to burn down the house she was in, then tried to shoot her on the NYC subway, but luckily his gun jammed) and the stories that me and my fellow volunteers heard while manning a crisis hotline back in another lifetime.
It happens often enough that abused women have to take the threat seriously. Is the reverse true?
Some of them probably don’t have that option.
You’re making the assumption that all abused men have the resources and means to pack up and leave. What if the man doesn’t have the resources to go some where else ? No friends, no relatives, no funds to get another apartment while paying a mortgage where the abuser refuses to leave, or just too ashamed to ask for help because of the stigma.
And since there’s next to no shelters for abused men and their children what is he suppose to do, abandon his kids and go to a homeless shelter ? They suck it up and take it, is what they do.
Canada had one shelter for male victims of domestic abuse. Until the person running it Earl Silverman, killed himself. Last count there was 593 shelters for women.
Considering that women and men are equally abusive towards each other. It makes you wonder why there aren’t more shelters for men who suffer from domestic violence.
As far as the topic goes there is a definite double standard when it comes to women attacking men. The main thing I noticed regarding this hollywood freak show, and not only from popcorn media commentators but even from women at my work discussing it. They pondered “What did he do ?” as in what did he do to anger her so much that would cause her to attack him. It’s the same as saying “Was she dressing provocatively ?” if a woman was raped.
So, one study that focuses on crime versus a three-year research project conducted by 42 scholars at 20 universities and research centers, and including information on 17 areas of domestic violence research.
The reason that there are so many shelters for women is because women started talking about abuse and began grass roots movements to build shelters for women who are in abusive situations. Years ago there was huge stigma and ramifications for women in talking about this issue. Men can certainly follow women’s groups to create their own groups to talk about this issue and what to do about it.
I am hearing a lot of discussion of what the problem is, yet no one seems to want to do the work to do anything about it, other than to attack the work that women have done in this area.
First of all, props for leaving an abusive relationship, Aceplace.
That said, I’d guess your experience has shaped your views, not for the better.
Case in point:
These are not bad things. They should be celebrated. Women should be encouraged to achieve greater physical strength or learn self-defense or serve in the military if that’s what they want to do.
As for the celebrity gossipy slappy thing you linked to; if you really want to bemoan the pitiful plight of the downtrodden and abused modern male, you’re going to have to find a better example to convince me.
In my opinion, the amount of abuse that women have suffered at the hands of men throughout history, and which continues today, so outweighs the reverse as to make it almost negligible.
Yes, female-on-male abuse is a real problem. It is just a far smaller problem.
I realize the additional examples were probably left out in order to more quickly get to the more salient points of your contribution. However, since you’re a L.E.O. and I’m a former martial arts instructor, I thought I’d add them back in for our readers’ benefit: Knives and guns, of course, are not an exhaustive list of dangerous or deadly weapons. Most of our readers will immediately think of pipes, candlesticks, and the rest of the devices Misses Green could use in the Conservatory, but the fact is there’s a surprisingly large arsenal available in the average room. Many improvised weapons take a surprisingly small amount of force to cause damage, up to and including death.
A co-worker of mine once came to work and announced he was getting divorce because his wife of 2 years started reaching into the kitchen sink* and was throwing dirty pots and pans across the room at him [We’re talking 12" iron skillets and 2-gallon pasta-boilers, huge stuff!] and when she started flinging dishes [a la War of the Roses] he caught a shard across his cheek and left the apartment. He spent the night in a motel and came directly to work the next day, telling us coworkers the news even before informing his wife.
–G!
*Yeah! She literally attacked him with everything but the kitchen sink!
. . . Damn!:eek:
Sure, there’s a double standard. For a good reason. As many have pointed out, in general, women are smaller and less able to defend themselves/inflict serious damage. I don’t think a man should be required to just stand there and take it, but hitting her back? Why? Especially in Jay-Z’s case, where he had a body guard to take care of it? If he had been alone and restrained her, put his hands out to stop her, etc., that’s all fine & expected, IMO. But why would he NEED to punch her lights out if he could stop it by doing those things? That’s the difference, to me. If Jay-Z were punching Solange and she punched him back, it’s because she couldn’t incapacitate him enough non-violently to stop the abuse. Jay-Z could have easily incapacitated her just by restraining her. Frankly, I’m uncomfortable with how many people (mostly men, and not on this site) have been downright gleeful at the prospect of getting to punch a woman scot free because “she started it.” If Solange had a weapon, if Beyonce were teaming up with her to gang up on him, AND he had no body guard, I might see it differently.
Feel free to think that, whatever it means. But you haven’t offered even the shoddy reasoning I did. Whatever “balls-ton” represents, I very much doubt every victim of domestic violence suffers equally. The fact that most of them are women is irrelevant - my speculation was that an average male victim of domestic violence would suffer more than an average female victim.* My reasoning is based on the lack of emotional support generally available to men, society’s perceptions of who the victim is supposed to be and even well-intentioned people who react negatively to the idea of males being victims of domestic violence because they feel it’s a distraction from the real issue: female victims.
*I didn’t make it clear that I meant this rather than men/women as a whole, but I would have thought it could be inferred.
Sorry. nm.
He probably doesn’t get as badly injured. He probably doesn’t get as much moral support. I’m not sure putting those together adds up to “suffering more.” (I’m not even sure why we’re trying to compare them, but whatever.)
Well, the fact that your reasoning was shoddy in the same way RT’s was was my point. Of course they don’t all suffer the same. And all male victims don’t suffer the same as all other male victims, which is why basing anything on a categorical distinction is unreasonable.
Cases of women attacking men are judged the same way cases of men attacking women are. One at a time first by police, second by a prosecutor, third by a grand jury and fourth in court by a petite jury or judge in a court trial.
In this particular case we happen to have video. She is certainly in my opinion engaged in assault and battery. And she is desperately bad at it. The security guy held her off easily, and Jay-Z was in no danger. He could have defended himself by pushing his hand out stiffly. Or crumpled her up with one uppercut or cross. He didn’t, knowing the security guy would easily hold her off. His judgment of the situation seems to have been sound, cool and calm. As though he realized he was in any danger and this was a stupid tantrum.
Them what takes the first swing should expect retaliation of some sort.
This. My grandparents sent big mixed messages on this. My grandfather was of the “Never hit a woman” school, while my grandmother felt this was condescending, implying the woman lacked emotional control or the brains to know what she was getting into or, more cynically, planned to capitalize on men with my grandfather’s mindset; she was for hitting back.
Someone wrote an opinion piece at The Guardian trying to argue for the double standard. Let’s just say it was not well received in the comments.
“Some females might have periods in their life when they get “slap-happy”, primarily when socialising, maybe when attention seeking, usually when drunk (guilty!). When they stop this behaviour, it’s usually because they’re ashamed, embarrassed or have belatedly realised they’re disgusting dogs who can’t hold their drink. Whatever the reason, it’s unlikely to have anything to do with men being frightened of them. On the contrary, it’s wired into the female DNA that in the main they’re under threat rather than the threat.”
Yeeeeesh. That’s some self-hate right there, sweetie.
What I don’t understand is why anyone cares whether women tend to be less physically strong than men. People say things such as “unless she uses a knife or other weapon …”
Well, what if she does? Are women incapable of using weapons? Have they not yet discovered knife technology? Are they too stupid to understand how to wait until someone is sleeping, or their back is turned, in order to strike?
Suggesting that someone isn’t a victim because it was unlikely that being slapped would cause serious injury is silly. If a man slaps a woman and only leaves a small bruise, that doesn’t make it ok. The fact that it’s not ok has nothing to do with the fact that he could have hurt her more if he had tried. It’s true that he could have, but he didn’t. Likewise, a woman who slaps a man could have hurt him more if she had wanted to (even if not with direct physical strength). The fact that she didn’t in this instance is, likewise, irrelevant.