[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
The “Friend Zone” is not where best friends end up. They supposedly do have a high incidence of romance.
Or are you implying that a man can’t be a woman’s best friend and still be “a man”?
[/QUOTE]
No, what I am suggesting is that if you are romantically interested in someone, pursue them romantically. Don’t make them your golf buddy and then hope it gets romantic from there.
[Be incredibly wealthy! Take Bill Gates do you think that uber nerd would get a second glance from any female (other than his Mom) if he wasn’t banking the Big Dollars? Not everyone can be physically attractive but anyone can be rich in America (if you try hard enough). Invent something like practical cold fusion, if you’re not that smart try porn look at “The Girls Gone Wild “ guy he’s neck deep in cash. That guy had so much cash he bought his way out of major felony jail time. Money can make up for a lot of character flaws (or you can pay to have them fixed). Money and modern medicine can repair all but the most heinous of physical appearances. Money creates power one of the strongest attractants known.
“In this country ,first you get the money, then you get the power, THEN you get the woman.”
[QUOTE=tdn]
Huh? It’s a demonstration that you don’t need to look like a hollywood actor to attract women.
[/quote]
Not just that. It also says women are just tools to be manipulated, that men’s proper role is to manipulate them, and if you don’t like the rules of the game, you’re less of a man and don’t deserve to be gettin’ it on.
Which is why being a pickup artist shouldn’t be a compliment. That’s what it’s all about - social control. The guys who buy it may think they’re beating the system, but all they’re doing is buying in.
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
Not just that. It also says women are just tools to be manipulated, that men’s proper role is to manipulate them, and if you don’t like the rules of the game, you’re less of a man and don’t deserve to be gettin’ it on.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, except that none of them actually said that. Not anything even close to it. Sean most certainly didn’t. His whole talk was about getting more enjoyment out of your own life.
Actually, it’s about social competence. It’s about overcoming approach anxiety and going in, carrying on a conversation, and knowing when asking for a number is the right thing to do.
I’m not sure where you got your ideas about being manipulative and treating women like tools, but it must be a very different place than I got my ideas. Either that or it’s the same place, but we interpreted it very differently.
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ]
Be an ACTIVE LISTENER. That’s such a turn on for me at least. I am absolutely turned off by conversations like this:
Dude: So, where did you grow up?
Me: I grew up near Cleveland…
Dude: Yeah? I’ve been there. I have a friend from there. His name is Dave. Last time I was out to visit Dave we had such a sweet time. I don’t get out there much, tho. I grew up outside of Canton blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Me: nods
I can always tell when guys are trying to follow the advice of “be interested in her” but that just turns into a list of pre-defined questions and with zero follow-up. It’s such a pain in the ass, I can’t stand it!
ACTIVE listening includes asking questions, LISTENING and then FOLLOW-UP questions. Turning the conversation back to yourself is just…gross. I understand it happens when a guy is nervous, but really…ugh!
[/QUOTE]
Understand that this advice can be hard to follow, and for some of us (like me), it takes a bit of practice. But…what Zipper said.
It’s actually OK to be nervous, heck, the one you’re with may actually be equally or even more nervous. Sometimes, believe it or not, some folk do not find this unattractive, where they would find a smoother-than-silk, silver-tongued devil a serious warning sign.
Chicks dig scars and musicians.
Are you or do you have either?
[QUOTE=Key Lime Guy]
Be confident & somewhat disinterested.
Talk about the charity work you do & how much you love your niece.
[/QUOTE]
That is soooooo creepy.
Well, not to brag, but I have been supremely successful in picking up women. Success on a minor rock star level. Nearly all of them have been very attractive.
I have, however, been a supreme failure in cultivating and maintaining good relationships. This might explain why I am 33, single and missing the best thing in my life who recently walked away from me.
Regardless, let’s try and get more specific here.
What age group are you in?/looking for? What’s your socio-economi grouping?
Are you looking for a relationship or just to score?
You’re much more likely to meet someone from your own age and socio-economic group.
After a certain age women are looking for more than just the bad-boy, keep them mean to keep them keen type. If you are 20 and looking for that hottie in the club/sorority then you’re going to have a tougher time. After 26 or so women want someone who can provide for themselves and for them. That’s not to say that they need you to take care of them but that you have your act together and that you have some ambition. Being an interesting, fun to be around schlub won’t get you laid too often. Again though, see above as I am terrible at maintaining a relationship.
If it’s a first impression situation then the the key is confidence. Be yourself. You are the fucking man. You know your limitations but you also know that you are the best thing in that room.
Try to be funny but then get fairly serious just so she knows you have a serious side. Talk about her but pepper the conversation with some of your good points. Also, don’t be intimidated and do look her in the eye (though don’t stare). Also, be prepared to walk away. Make an impression then walk away. Let her see you with friends, haning out. Then you can get back to her and she knows you’re cool with or without her.
The friend thing is a seperate posting.
[QUOTE=diggleblop]
Read every word of THIS SITE. Word for word. Trust me.
[/QUOTE]
The ladders theory is completely fucked up, but people should be aware of it because there is an element of truth there, but it’s not the gospel. Seriously, a web site that labels 99% of women as bitches isn’t healthy.
This theory came about from a college kid who finally understood some “greater truths” in the same way that the Men are from Mars type of books are both deep and shallow at the same time.
The problem is that there are too many people who don’t make the moves when they are attracted to someone. Since society says that men are to make the moves, then we run into the problem where a guy who don’t have a lot of confidence hang around a girl and hope that the woman will notice his innate goodness and will convey her attraction to him.
It’s then a complete shock to the guy to find out that the woman only considers him as a friend, so he gets pissed off can calls her a bitch and says she’s only interested in looks or money. (Read the site if you doubt this.)
The site claims that guys only rate girls on the basis of if they would like to fuck them or not. This, of course, is bullshit, because while guys have ratings of women who they would like to have sex with, they also have ratings of women they would have relationships, including marriage, with.
Women do have friends of the opposite sex and guys they are attracted to. It’s stupid for guys to try the friends route with women they are interested in, but don’t have the balls to be more direct. This is where guys feel used, but since they are being honest about their intentions, then it’s the guys who are idiots.
Any guy with a sister, a female cousin or a good friend who is a woman knows that lots of women worry about “is he interested in me or not?” My wife’s friends do this all the time. Women (lots of them, at least, I know we’re talking gross generalizations here) love to talk this to death. Look at Monica L., and her tapped conversation. Anyway, so women often love to have male friends to ask what the guy’s input is on the question. Which then kills guys who are hanging around waiting for a sign. “Damnit, I want you and you’re asking if you think that this other guy likes you or not.”
So what can you do? I’ll put in Part II later.
[QUOTE=Beware of Doug]
Not just that. It also says women are just tools to be manipulated, that men’s proper role is to manipulate them, and if you don’t like the rules of the game, you’re less of a man and don’t deserve to be gettin’ it on.
Which is why being a pickup artist shouldn’t be a compliment. That’s what it’s all about - social control. The guys who buy it may think they’re beating the system, but all they’re doing is buying in.
[/QUOTE]
I think it depends. I don’t like the tone of those “How to Pick up Women” books because they do sound misogynistic and hostile. “I used to be a big loser (or Average Frustrated Chump to use the vernacular) but I’ve learned the ‘secrets’ and now I bang any woman I please.”
Still, they do have some good points for understanding social dynamics and very often, it is helpful to have some kind of framework to work from. It could be as simple as “I’m going to talk to as many girls as I can tonight and as soon as I feel like we’re hitting in off, tell her I have to go and ask her for her number so I can set up a date on Wednesday”.
tdn also has a point with his ugly midget story. You can’t control what other people do, only what you do. The more people you approach, the greater your probability of connecting with someone who also finds you attractive.
If you are looking for women in a club, you are essentially in a beauty and charm contest with everyone else in that club. The good news is that alchohol, ambiance and dim lighting makes everyone look better and seem more charming. I think it’s also an easier environment to pick up women because they are there to be picked up. As opposed to the local Barnes & Nobel where people aren’t necessarily in that mode.
Sorority girls are a slightly different matter. They are very status conscious. Everything about them is “what would the other girls think”. They will tend to date guys in the fraternity they frequent most, or guys similar to those guys. It’s kind of like how the easiest way to date a high school cheerleader is to join the football team.
Autolycus, my read on the situation is just as yours is – She’s just not into dating right now. If her mind is made up on that, there’s not much you can do to change it. You – all of you – are firmly in friend zone. And that’s not a bad thing at all. She’s a good dude that you’d do well to be friends with. Cute girls have cute friends. Aside from having a friend that’s absolutely adorable and charming, you’ll get invited to all the parties she’ll get invited to, and trust me, she’ll get invited to the very best.
Walk in with her. Talk to her there. Women will say “Who’s that guy that the hot babe is talking to? He must really have something going on.”
But is this the same girl that said that there should be a law against how you always run into each other? I don’t know how she said it, but that stikes me not so much as mean, but as a complete flirt.
Have you read The Game? All the “pay attention to her feelings” stuff in this thread puts you squarely in friendtown.
[QUOTE=micahjn]
Have you read The Game? All the “pay attention to her feelings” stuff in this thread puts you squarely in friendtown.
[/QUOTE]
Yep.
Ignore her feelings. Don’t care. But pay attention to how she acts.
“We have to stop bumping into each other like this. There must be some law against it.” Game was on. Sorry, man, but you blew it. She so wanted to chew through your BVDs, but you moved it to friend zone. There’s little chance of recovery from that.
But so what? Don’t get the girl, get the lesson. You’ve been schooled, and now you’re a little more educated about it.
Foster attraction by being attractive. Seriously. Women will start you off at the “I’m attracted to you” level if they are, in fact, physically attracted to you. It’s only when you’re not starting at that level that you ever really need to actively cultivate a woman’s interest. In that vein, there’s no man alive that can’t up his game an entire level by investing in a gym membership and a tanning bed package.
And never go to friendtown. If you even feel like she’s sliding you to friends, fuck it, you go ahead and put her there first. Be like “ohhh, we could never, we work together” or “well I think we’re safe, because I value our friendship.” Then treat her like a nun or a butch lesbian from that point on, treat her like she doesn’t even own a vag and you wouldn’t care one way or the other if she did. Talk to her like you would a dude except for of course, edit out the really bad stuff. She can see you as a dog, just don’t be a mangy rabid dog. Keep her on the acquaintance list, be occasionally but absent-mindedly nice to her and trust me, unless there was never anything there and never going to be, it’s only a matter of time before she starts going after you.
Preemptive strike on friendtown, always.
[QUOTE=Grossbottom]
Then treat her like a nun or a butch lesbian from that point on, treat her like she doesn’t even own a vag and you wouldn’t care one way or the other if she did.
[/QUOTE]
Or like your annoying kid sister. You would never be seen hanging with her, you think she’s a punk, but when the chips are down, you’d lay down your life for her.
[QUOTE=tdn]
But is this the same girl that said that there should be a law against how you always run into each other? I don’t know how she said it, but that stikes me not so much as mean, but as a complete flirt.
[/QUOTE]
No no no, two different girls, and you’re mixing up threads dag nabbit! Totally agree with you regarding N. There’s lots of benefits, and if N said the “must be a law line,” it would have totally been a good sign, and I would have picked up on it no sweat. The way girl S said it was totally spiteful however, and she skittled off before I could even get a word in. A facebook message is an option I guess, because I’m definitely not in her ‘friend zone.’
Oops, sorry for messing up the stories. So were you actually stalking S or being clingy? If so, stop it. If not, then WTF? You kept accidentally running into her, and she said that? She actually said that? Be glad you got out now, before she got the house and the kids.
Post some pics already, who’s messin’ with our boy.
[QUOTE=tdn]
Oops, sorry for messing up the stories. So were you actually stalking S or being clingy? If so, stop it. If not, then WTF? You kept accidentally running into her, and she said that? She actually said that? Be glad you got out now, before she got the house and the kids.
[/QUOTE]
I flirted with her awkwardly at some club events we met at a few times, maybe stared a bit, and asked her to lunch on facebook (which got no response). All in all a very shitty performance, but nothing close to clingy or stalkerish. Whatever man. It’s her loss.