How horrible was it to be killed by Mount St. Helens?

[LSLGuy]

@Leo_Bloom

…
BTW, “LSL”–>?

The initials of the town I lived in when I joined. Think like NYCGuy. Not real exciting.

[TroutMan]

At least one person had a presumably painful death:

At one point, about 14 miles from St. Helens, Hagerman spotted tracks in the ash. He followed them until he found two men on a road along the Toutle River. They were part of a logging crew caught in the surge.

One was on his feet and was asking for pain medication, Hagerman said.

“He’s 14 miles from the mountain, and he has these big welts on his face,” Hagerman said. “His hands are black. I learned later that was because his gloves had fused to his hands.”

Hagerman flew the men to safety. The man with the welts survived. His co-worker later died of his burns.

[Interrobang]

@LSLGuy

Awesome find. Thank you. Yeah, all of those folks went real quick.

Agreed. This is exactly the kind of thing I was curious about. Thank you, Colibri.

[nearwildheaven]

I watched this last night. One does have to wonder about people who would take a 3-month-old tent camping. :dubious:

http://www.c-span.org/video/?407135-1/book-discussion-eruption

[LSLGuy]

Primitive humans have been “camping” with 3-month olds ever since 3-month olds were invented. Barring the occasional volcano they seem to survive just fine.

[Velocity]

@Colibri

Pyroclastic flows can reach 450 miles per hour and 1800 degrees F. I think you would be killed essentially instantaneously when it hit you.

Instantly? Human flesh is thick. Your brain is protected by skull and retains consciousness unless deprived of oxygen. Pain registers almost instantaneously.

I’d expect at least 10 seconds of hideous agony.

[Colibri]

@Velocity

Instantly? Human flesh is thick. Your brain is protected by skull and retains consciousness unless deprived of oxygen. Pain registers almost instantaneously.

I’d expect at least 10 seconds of hideous agony.

I expect that in most cases you would be knocked unconscious by the shock wave. The shock wave broke off large trees at the base. It would be like slamming into a wall at hundreds of miles an hour. In any case, 10 seconds is fast compared to most other ways of death.

[Velocity]

@Colibri

In any case, 10 seconds is fast compared to most other ways of death.

Fast, yes, but 10 seconds of being burned is a very long 10 seconds.

[Machine_Elf]

@Colibri

I expect that in most cases you would be knocked unconscious by the shock wave. The shock wave broke off large trees at the base. It would be like slamming into a wall at hundreds of miles an hour. In any case, 10 seconds is fast compared to most other ways of death.

Nitpick: 450 MPH, while more than enough to flatten old-growth forests, is not a shock wave.

[Colibri]

@Velocity

Fast, yes, but 10 seconds of being burned is a very long 10 seconds.

Cite?

@Machine_Elf

Nitpick: 450 MPH, while more than enough to flatten old-growth forests, is not a shock wave.

Nitpick right back. The definition as found in dictionaries does not require the wave to be faster than the speed of sound. The technical definition does not make the non-technical definition wrong.

shock wave

Simple Definition of shock wave
: a movement of extremely high air pressure that is caused by an explosion, an earthquake, etc.
: a usually negative response or reaction that many people have to a particular thing

Full Definition of shock wave
1: a compressional wave of high amplitude caused by a shock (as from an earthquake or explosion) to the medium through which the wave travels
2: a violent often pulsating disturbance or reaction <shock waves of rebellion>

[Duckster]

Spend some time and watch the entire video:

Minute by Minute: The Eruption of Mount St. Helens

Officially, 57 people were killed by the eruption. Perhaps another dozen might have been caught but no record exists. Had the eruption occurred an hour later, the death toll might have been in the thousands.

[Senegoid]

@LSLGuy

As with most accidents / weapons / forces of nature the two best places to be are far away and right in the middle. It’s the in-between zone that holds all the horror.

Similar stories about the aftermath of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – The least horrendous place to be was right at, or near, Ground Zero, where the victims presumably got vaporized faster than a nerve impulse can travel from one synapse to the next.

People farther away got horribly incinerated – not all of them fatally. There are stories of burnt people walking along the roads toward the river to jump in, their charred integuments dragging along the ground behind them.

[Senegoid]

A few weeks after Mt. St. Helens went kablooie, I happened to travel by commercial airliner from the Bay Area to Seattle. We flew right over Mt. St. Helens on the way, just slightly off to one side of the crater. The pilot dipped his starboard wing so passengers could see it out of the windows – we could look directly into the crater, which was still smoking. For some great distance all around, everything was a uniform solid gray. The trees, of which there were a great many, were all laying on the ground like heaps of pick-up-sticks.

[LSLGuy]

For folks interested in Mt. St. Helens specifically I give you the official MSH volcanocams: http://www.fs.fed.us/gpnf/volcanocams/msh/

The uppermost pic is a static file image. The dynamic ones are down below. I check about once a week to see how the seasons are progressing.

In the top static image there’s a rounded bulge filling most of the right-center of the wrecked crater. That lump is all new since the eruption. It’s growing slowly but more or less continuously. Which is another way of saying we’ve probably not heard the last from Mt. St. Helens.

[pool]

Originally posted by Machine Elf
The skull is not a sealed vessel. There are large passages for things like optic nerves, spinal cord, etc. If you heat a head to the point that the water inside it boils, the steam will exit through these passages. It may extrude some gray matter and flesh in the process, but it seems unlikely to me that the tissue occluding these holes would be strong enough to allow the buildup of pressure to the point that a BLEVE event would cause violent rupture of the brain case.

Well it seems the logic applied is that the superheated pyroclastic flows and ash heated the air almost instantly to about 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. I’m aware that the skull is not airtight which actually I would think would make the head explosion thing more plausible. The superhot temperature air would make its way to via thermal transfer through conduction right? The areas like the eyesockets and such might act as a pressure relief valve but could probably only handle so much and they make it sound like this temperature increase happened so fast in the articles I read.

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/investigating-herculaneum/116/

I think its a given that your brain and cerebrospinal fluid are going to stand up to considerably less heat and pressure than the skull and with the resulting pressure, do you think its at least theoretically possible? Now I don’t know if people’s heads really “exploded” scanners movie style but maybe its just hyperbole on the part of the authors but maybe it was enough to essentially shatter all of the skull but not to literally explode it where there is nothing left.

I keep seeing it brought up in different articles on the city of Herculaneum that I’m reading but after google image search I’ve yet to find pictures of skeletons with missing heads.

[snfaulkner]

@Machine_Elf

The skull is not a sealed vessel. There are large passages for things like optic nerves, spinal cord, etc. If you heat a head to the point that the water inside it boils, the steam will exit through these passages. It may extrude some gray matter and flesh in the process, but it seems unlikely to me that the tissue occluding these holes would be strong enough to allow the buildup of pressure to the point that a BLEVE event would cause violent rupture of the brain case.

Scientific documentary PROOFthat heads can explode from internal pressures.

[Leo_Bloom]

@Senegoid

Similar stories about the aftermath of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – The least horrendous place to be was right at, or near, Ground Zero, where the victims presumably got vaporized faster than a nerve impulse can travel from one synapse to the next.
…

Since this is being addressed in all sorts of responses–in this thread and a million others in the ever-popular series “what’s it feel like/die in …”–

The nervous system of systems of pain is sketched here: Nociception - Wikipedia

Given the above, and that the proper interpretation of the the sensory system and pain subjective experience is understood by me at 0.00001%, I merely supply in addition this (edited) table devoted to sensory-fiber types of nerves, from Wiki “Nerve conduction velocity” (Nerve conduction velocity - Wikipedia):

Type | Conduction velocity | Associated sensory receptors

I 80–120 m/s Responsible for proprioception
Ib 80–120 m/s Golgi tendon organ
II 33–75 m/s Secondary receptors of muscle spindle/all cutaneous mechanoreceptors
III 3–30 m/s Free nerve endings of touch and pressure/Nociceptors of neospinothalamic tract/Cold thermoreceptors
IV 0.5-2.0 m/s Nociceptors of paleospinothalamic tract/Warmth receptors

[Leo_Bloom]

@snfaulkner

Scientific documentary PROOFthat heads can explode from internal pressures.

Not gonna click. It’s from that movie. Betcha… Not gonna click.

ETA: Scanners. Just remembered. Not gonna click. Also: mentioned above.

[LSLGuy]

Blipverts. All the documentary proof anyone needs.

[Machine_Elf]

@pool

Well it seems the logic applied is that the superheated pyroclastic flows and ash heated the air almost instantly to about 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. I’m aware that the skull is not airtight which actually I would think would make the head explosion thing more plausible. The superhot temperature air would make its way to via thermal transfer through conduction right? The areas like the eyesockets and such might act as a pressure relief valve but could probably only handle so much and they make it sound like this temperature increase happened so fast in the articles I read.

The temperature increase can’t happen that fast. The brain isn’t liquid; it doesn’t circulate within the skull. This means that the outer layers have to be boiled dry before the inner layers can boil. That includes the skull itself: you have to heat the bone hot enough so that it dries out, and only then can it get hotter than 212 and begin to boil the grey matter contained therein. If you’re going to heat the brain up fast enough so that the steam generation exceeds the relief capacity of the various fenestrations, then the skull is going to be charred away, or at least structurally compromised. It could conceivably crack (and relieve the pressure), but I’m having a hard time believing it could explode under any reasonable definition of the term.

Maybe an experiment is warranted. The next time you roast a lamb head, turn the temp up to “Hades” and leave the head in the oven for a few hours. A time-lapse video posted to YouTube would be great, thanks; maybe it’ll even end up in a “GoPro Hero” compilation.