How Important Is This To You?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Okay. So this post is inspired by this one. I pit my new boyfriend for not buying me a Xmas present! - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board

Regardless of what anybody thinks of that OP’s issues, I do wonder…what are the “guidelines” on issues like this?

I ask because I just “celebrated” (and by that I mean “observed”) the fact that as of three days ago I have been single for six months.

I was in an exclusive serious relationship for eight years.

In those eight years, I received perhaps two birthday cards, two Christmas gifts, and IIRC, two Valentine’s day presents. Cards. Something. Anything.

I should make it clear that I told him from the beginning that birthdays/holidays are very important to me, because that’s how I was raised (waking up to balloons on the ceiling, cards, presents, sleepovers, etc.) and that even though I know it’s kinda silly, a handwritten card, or a little gift (stuffed animal, candy, whatever) have always meant a lot to me.

IOW, as I told him, think what you like, but regardless of our financial situation (we lived together for most of those eight years) I made it clear that I would adore and would kinda expect SOMETHING on my birthday, Valentine’s, and Christmas. Even if it was just a little note written on printer paper. Just some little thing to acknowledge the day. Didn’t matter what. A note on a Post-It when I woke up that day would have been all I needed. I told him this.

The fact that for eight years he managed this maybe twice (per holiday in those eight years) isn’t really the point.

My point is…I was made to feel kind of stupid for asking for this. And looking back, I still recall very vividly how petty I was made to feel for taking this type of thing “so seriously.” In his own family, holidays were not a big deal. Nor were birthdays. His mother would make him his favorite meal and he would get a little cash. In his mind, holidays and birthdays were not a big deal. That’s just the way he was raised, and that’s how he viewed it.

The few times he did remember, he did it perfectly…a custom “gift basket” of spa-type items with a love letter enclosed, or flowers and a card…etc…

But most years he just ignored all of it. One year he told me “I went to Hallmark to get you one of their big huge cards, but they didn’t have any!” My response (a normal one, I would hope) was “So why didn’t you get me just a regular card? And just sign it?” Another year we were at dinner on Valentine’s and I saw a waitress walk by our table, giggling and giddy as all hell, because another waiter had given her a little cupcake with a tiny sign stuck in the middle of it. All the sign said was “You are sweet.” That’s all it took to make her happy.

That’s all it would have taken to make ME happy. I told him that, and he swore he’d “remember,” and he didn’t.

He very rarely did. Throughout those eight years.

In other ways, he was quite thoughtful. He’d make me dinner, he’d drive me to work, he’d clean the house sometimes if he was off and I wasn’t, etc., etc…and I knew this and so I never made as big a deal out of the whole birthday/holiday thing as I could have, because in my mind, as he said, “If you love a woman, you love her every day. Not just a few days out of the year.”

But it got to the point where, as much as I love doing it, I stopped buying him anything. Even cards. Because for years I would wake up on Valentine’s and put a card/gift on his side of the bed so he would wake up to it, and I’d wake up to nothing. Not even a note. Same thing with Christmas. Same thing with birthdays. If we didn’t have any money I’d still find a dollar to buy him a card, or I’d write one myself, and give it to him. And he had a special file in his filing cabinet for all the cards he’d ever been given; he always saved them. It’s not like they didn’t mean anything to him. He had cards in that file that were far older than our relationship. Even from girls he hadn’t seen in a decade.

He saved them for a reason…because he knew they meant something.

But after awhile I stopped doing any of that, because I knew that if I bought him something, or even WROTE him something on a piece of paper, and he hadn’t…didn’t…I’d just be more pissed off than ever that I remembered and he didn’t. That in spite of everything, he just didn’t think/didn’t care enough to do the same. Even though he knew how important it was to me.

In your own relationships, how serious is this sort of thing?

This stuff isn’t the reason we broke up, but I’d be lying if I said it didn’t leave a lasting impression. All I asked for was a card. A note. SOMETHING. A couple times a year.

So after six months of being single, my mind is clear enough to ask the question and prepared enough for the answer…what does it mean when you make it very plain to your SO that something is important, and they ignore you? It’s not the cost of the card, or the price of the gift. I never cared about that or I never would have dated him in the first place. Much less spent eight years with him. (We were usually pretty broke, and that was okay with me. Like I said, a note on printer paper, or even scrap paper, would have made my day. And he knew that.)

It’s just that, looking back, I wonder why anybody would be stubborn/forgetful/careless enough to consistently ignore something so easy and so simple. Not to mention FREE. It almost seems deliberate. In eight years? Surely after that long you know better?

Am I crazy?

2

I think what is important is the incompatibility issue. Presents and cards are important to you, not to him. I don’t think there is a wrong side on the issue: I don’t put a lot of stock in holidays or birthdays, but what’s important is that neither does my wife. It’s a wiring issue.

It’s really difficult to make someone value something like presents and cards if they don’t, just as it would be difficult to train you not to value presents and cards to mark a holiday. In the end, people are who they are and either that works for you or it doesn’t.

3

If he consistently left his shoes in the middle of the floor for everyone to trip over and was seemingly unable to remember to move them no matter how many times you went thud; that’s not about if we grew up in a shoes-everywhere house or not. It’s about caring for your partner, being considerate of their needs regardless of the personal importance you place on a particular thing.

He should have met you in the middle and didn’t bother, that’s what relationships are about. No, you aren’t crazy.

4

I worked with a woman who was married to a skinflint. Both were married before. The combined income for them was about $150,000 yearly. After ten years of marriage she never recieved a gift for any occasion. This takes a toll. Nothing says I hate you more than never giving a spouse a present or card. After a some friction, and letting him know what she thought of this and not buying him presents on a Christmas and then his birthday, he got the point. Something else that can help send the message is to display nice gift given by a coworker or at least said to be from an imaginary coworker. Remember to use cash, so the purchase isn’t tracable by finance statements.

5

ANYTHING (legal and safe and consenting) can be important in a relationship, and allowable in a relationship, as long as the people in the relationship have strong feelings and can openly and honestly communicate them and come to an agreement on it. Yes, anything.

So something fell down here. Either A. you didn’t communicate clearly enough initially. (“Holidays were really a big deal for me as a kid” might leave him thinking, “Well, good thing I didn’t date you as a kid - now you’re all grown up and past that balloon on the ceiling nonsense!”) Or B. you didn’t follow through when he failed to respond by articulating your needs in a different way. Or C. he’s a big old jerk and this is part of why you are no longer in that relationship, and the only question is why you stayed for 8 years.

In reality, it’s most likely a little bit from columns A, B *and *C.

But to answer the title question, yes, some holidays are important to me as gift giving and receiving events, and this is something I’m working on with my husband. For us, the challenge is around him taking the kids (even the toddler) out to “buy” something for Mom on Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, Mom’s birthday and Christmas. A card is the minimum, cheap trinket or earrings that they pick out themselves is wonderful - a homemade craft with an inked handprint would make me happiest of all, but I’ve conceded that it just isn’t going to happen. His point of view is that if the kid barely talks, and he’s paying for it anyway, the kid isn’t really the one giving me the crap - which I don’t need anyway. My point of view is that kids need to be taught and encouraged early to give gifts to people they care about so that it becomes a natural act. Who is “right” is not important. We’re both right, in our ways. What’s important is that he cares enough about our relationship that he, most of the time, remembers to take the kids out gift shopping after only 397 reminders.

6

I’m wondering why this seems to be a guy thing.

My family has always done a big Christmas thing, and unspoken is that once people reach a certain age, they begin to reciprocate. So while it’s fine that a twelve-year-old gets showered with presents but doesn’t leave any under the tree, he should show some generiosity once he reaches, oh say, 20.

My sister married a man who, before they met, never gave anyone Christmas presents. Of course, he received a ton each year, from his parents and an assortment of extended family. But except for his SO, he never gave anyone presents.

My sister thought this was totally wrong and told him straight-up to his face. Now, he’s very generous with his gifts. But I’m not sure what my sister would have done if he had stayed the same.

I’m not a big birthday person, but if I tell you my birthday’s coming up and you don’t at least remember to say “Happy Birthday” when the day rolls around, I might be a little salty. Especially if I made a big effort to do something special on your day. It’s all about reciprocating affection, IMHO.

7

Can’t answer the question in the title. But I’ve got something which might be helpful in general.

There’s this book called The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman (and a website) which talks about how some people need gifts, some people like words, some people like people doing things for them, some people like just spending time with each other, and some people like physical contact. Now, he happens to be a Biblical marriage counselor, so reading his book may not be right for everyone, but I think he has a big chunk of truth. People express love for each other in a variety of ways, and they recognize when someone else is expressing love for them in a variety of ways. If he didn’t give gifts, but did do something else which was more meaningful to him, then you both probably got your feelings a bit hurt, because you didn’t appreciate what he did do, and you were upset because he didn’t do what you wanted him to do. This isn’t just applicable to husbands and wives, it affects how we interact with children, friends, even co-workers.

And so, in a healthy relationship where you recognize that the love languages that are most important to you are different from those that are most important to your partner, you make an extra effort to perform those that are meaningful to the partner, and to appreciate it when your partner performs those which are meaningful (to either one of you). (And your partner does the same for you).

Now, I think one can have a healthy relationship without recognizing that you have different love languages that you value. But if you are in a position to recognize that what you value is not the same as what your partner values, some compromise may be neccessary.

(monstro, if it seems to be a guy thing, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is one part guys tending to value different love languages than ladies, and one part society seems to reinforce the notion that guys just don’t get it when it comes to giving gifts.)

8

Early in a relationship I would be hurt not to get *something *for Christmas. It wouldn’t have to be expensive, but I would like some kind of token. More points awarded if some thought were given in the process.

If we had been living together for a while I might not expect anything.

My birthday is the one day of the year I want it to be about me. I want a fuss made. You don’t even have to bother to remember, because I start advertising that it is coming weeks in advance. If I weren’t recognized on my birthday I would take that as a strong sign of lack of caring.

I can’t think of any other day that is important to me. I wouldn’t care if I got nothing on Valentines and certainly no other day of the year.

As far as it being a “guy thing” to not give, I think that is a rather broad brush. At Christmas I give gifts to damn near everyone. Mostly books that I think they would like, but if I don’t know them well enough to know what they might like to read then I usually give them a nice Christmas ornament. If they don’t like the ornament, they can take heart in knowing that it is made of a full ounce of pure silver and so in the end at least they could sell it for its melt value.

9

Christmas presents are nice, but not nearly as important as they were when I was a kid. I’ve noticed as I’ve gotten older that I just don’t care much if I get anything.

Birthdays have never been important to me. I swear, growing up I was the only kid around that had never had a birthday party, and really didn’t want one.
So let’s see, my boyfriend and I have been together for 3 birthdays each, and 3 christmases. He told me “happy birthday” for my birthdays, and this past one he turned down a party invite from friends to spend it with me :smiley: For christmas, um… well I don’t think we’ve ever spent christmas together. We’re usually spending it with our families and don’t even see each other 'til the next day. We haven’t given anything to each other.

10

It’s not as if he never did anything for you or gave you anything. Some people hate being ‘forced’ to be loving on a specific mandated day. It’s their rebellion against THe Man, I guess.

Had he been neglectful all year, including on special occasions, then I’d say you had a valid beef. Given that he seemed to walk his own talk, to wit

and if he was a good spouse in other ways, then I think it might have been worth it to try to decouple your ‘if you really loved me, you’d do x’ test from your frame of reference.

It seems that he didn’t single you out for this behaviour; his own family got the same sort of treatment.

I also recommend Chapman’s book. I think one of its most valuable lessons is that just because you think something is a symbol of love doesn’t mean it is to someone else and that you need to learn to be grateful for the symbols offered by your partner.

11

Given the culture in the US, I think someone has to deliberately ignore a whole lot to get to the point of “Oh, I didn’t think of giving you a gift.”

12

For specifics, presents aren’t important to either me or my husband–we went through the motions early in the relationship because we didn’t quite believe it didn’t matter to the other person, but eventually figured out that neither of us were bluffing.

For the bigger issue–doing something to make your partner happy–I think you have to distinguish between doing something you are neutral on and doing something you actively dislike. If you don’t mind putting your shoes in the bedroom when you come home, then you should. On the other hand, if you get a little thrill at the end of the day everytime you sit down in the chair and kick off your shoes and you hate to give it up, it’s legitimate to value that little thrill. Doesn’t mean the issue can’t be negotiated, but it’s a give and take thing at that point–both people don’t get why something matters to the other person, but they need to acknowledge that it does matter and find a compromise.

An example from my own marriage. My husband hates to say “I love you”. It’s not just that he doensn’t think of it, or it’s not his thing. It bugs him to say it. He feels like it trivalizes his feelings and reduces them to a cliche. He feels like he’s giving in to mass-produced ideas of what relationships should be like. I don’t get this at all. I say I love you, I was raised in a household where we said I love you all the time. But I can’t just say “you should say this because it makes me happy and it doens’t cost you anything”. It does cost something, it costs him feeling like a chump. So I spent a lot of time when this became an issue trying to decide how much I really cared about it, and finally decided it wasn’t that big of a deal–what mattered more was me being able to say “I love you” when I wanted to without feeling awkward. He really does’t understand why I enjoy saying it, but accept that I enjoy it and always accepts it with grace. That was the compromise that worked for us. It took quite a few long boring talks about our relationship to find it, but we were able to. However, had our personalities been a little differnet–if it was the hearing, not hte saying, that bugged him–our relationship probably wouldn’t have worked. Compromise can’t fix all incompatibilities. That’s what you have the long boring talks about your relationship to find out.

13

I’d be with you if the OP didn’t say that he kept all the cards he got. Therefore, those symbols did mean something to him.

14

Shortly after we were married, my husband and I found a quiz similar to this one by the earlier mentioned Gary Chapman. For fun we took it, and were surprised to find that my #1 way of feeling loved was his last choice, and his first choice was my last choice. http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/30sec.html#love

So it gave us a good excuse to talk about it. I explained that when I was very young, my father traveled around the world consulting on various projects. I didn’t see him often. When I would complain about this I was told my father was a very important man who was needed by other countries to help them learn to do what my father did so well. And even though my dad would rather not be gone so much, he went because he was a good person and good people help those that need help, even when they would rather be doing something else. So I needed to learn to share my dad, knowing he was doing something very important that would make many people’s lives better. And I could be like my dad, a good person, by not complaining about him being gone so much.

When he would return from each trip, sometime that first evening home he would take me to where his half unpacked suitcase was and say, “While I was gone I saw this pretty doll and thought of you. She comes all the way from Japan (or wherever) and what she is wearing is called a Kimono (or whatever). I thought you might like to introduce her to your other dolls, and you and she can teach the others what it was like to live in Japan.” (He would also bring me whatever the currency was, pictures of the most famous sites, etc. and tell me about the kind of food they ate and their other customs. This was a very special one on one time for me, and I loved hearing about the strange places he had been.)

So my fondest memories of growing up are when he would come home and present me with my new doll. I was always so thrilled to think that a very important man like my dad thought about me while he was gone. I knew he thought of me when he was gone because he always brought me back a doll. Now I really never liked the dolls much. These were all the kind that would just stand on a shelf, too fragile to actually play with. So it really was the thought that counted. And the thought I had when receiving the dolls was, “This doll is proof that a very important man thinks I am important too.” And when I was lonely or sad, or being picked on, I could go stand and look at my shelf full of dolls from around the world and I would immediately feel better.

So in explaining all that to my new husband, he could really understand why I listed receiving gifts as my number one way of feeling loved. We are both rather anti-holiday, so pretty much every gift I have received from him was one of something he saw somewhere and thought I would like, or bought when I was feeling blue about something else and he wanted to cheer me up. And his giving them to me has the same affect on me as those dolls. It never really matters what the gift is, but just knowing that the most important man in my life thinks I am important enough to get something for, immediately makes me feel better. And that usually leads to his number one way of feeling loved, receiving physical contact. So this works well for both of us, and I am so glad we took that quiz and talked about it, because otherwise he would not have known what receiving gifts means to me, and I would not have know what receiving physical contact means to him.

15

I highly highly endorse the love language thing. Amazingly insightful. (I am a “words of affirmation” person. My wife is “small gifts”.)

16

It seems that you made it clear how important those remembrances were to you, but he also made it clear that he wasn’t going to provide them. But like he said, he showed his love in other ways.

Like Quiddity said, maybe he was feeling forced, and rebelled against that. A bit passive-aggressive, but maybe he wasn’t up to having a confrontation about it.

These things are important to me, but I’m like you – I’m just as happy with a “Happy birthday honey!” and a hug as I am with a fancy gift.

My husband and I think alike on stuff like this. He likes compliments and being acknowledged when he goes out of his way to help with something. And I don’t like criticism. So I make a point to give him positive attention every day, and he keeps quiet. :slight_smile:

17

I absolutely hate gifts and cards (Hallmark occasion cards, not real mail = notes because someone want to write to me).
And no matter how I say or how many times, certain people refuse to accept this. They insist on their “right” to send them and to complain about my “neglect” in ignoring, scorning or outright returning them.
So I side with your SO. You put love for the great god Hallmark ahead of his feelings about the matter.

18

I agree with the people who are saying it’s a respect thing. If you tell your SO that what you love most is getting an acknowledgment in the form of any type of gift or card on your birthday , then they should respect that and do it. Same as if you say “I love having my nipples licked” or “I love when someone is there to make me coffee in the morning.”

I bet you your ex remembers what you told him you liked in bed.

I also think sometimes guys feel that ALL women are expensive and expect expensive gifts. Your dude figured all you wanted was a big fancy card from Hallmark because he thought you wanted him to show his love with money. He couldn’t spend a lot of money on you so he gave up. He missed the message that it was the SENTIMENT and not the PRICE that made you happy.

19

One of the ways in which I can sum up the immense majority of the “issues” myself and my brothers had with my parents when we were growing up is this:

Dad never congratulated us for anything that wasn’t marked on the calendar.

He didn’t even congratulate my brother on his wedding or any of us on graduating from college, getting jobs, buying houses. Nothing. I think at the wedding banquet he said something along the lines of “sigh well, it’s done, let’s hope you two don’t screw up too badly.” Yeah, right, real positive, Daddy, I so love the encouragement.

Yes, it’s important. It’s things that say “I appreciate you”. In your case, you like to get “little things” on those days the calendar marks; my brothers and myself love getting unexpected presents, because to us they say “I know all of you, I think of you at any time.” If it was for me, Mom and the bros, we might have dropped most “calendar days” by now, but they’re important to SiL and she’s part of the family, so we observe them.

20

I detest cards - they are a commercial rip off and reek of insincerity.

Gifts on birthdays and Christmas are enforced and, well cynical. They aren’t ‘gifts’ they are social tithes - a chore for the giver and clutter for the recipient.

To me a gift is seeing something that someone would like, and getting it for them, there are normally 363 days in the year when giving gifts is enjoyable and the recipient might actually find it useful. Hopefully given without expectation of reciprocity.

Gifts are Ok for children, but, in my view, adults don’t need artificial tokens of affection.