We all know by now that if you’re a good Muslim and die in jihad, you go straight to heaven and get your own personal collection of virgins. 70 of them. Or maybe 72. Or 75. Or 77. Or 79. Which is it? And does the number have any mystical significance?
I’ve honestly heard each and every one of those numbers stated as fact.
I ask because I’ve been thinking of converting to Islam, but no way I’m doing it for fewer than 76 virgins. I want a little return on my investment, if you know what I mean. 
Yes I know what you mean.
You mean that you want to get an idiotic rant about Islam started on GQ.
Salaam. A
No.
All joking aside, it’s a serious question. I’ve heard various numbers, but I have no idea which is the right one. Most people say 72, but 77 made the most sense to me, being that 7 is considered a number with mystical properties in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic world.
If I can hijack this thread to some respectability before it turns into a train wreck…
I have always been curious about this as well. Assuming that the premise is true (that Islam teaches that martyrs get 72 virgins in the afterlife), is there any significance to the number 72? And is the premise true to begin with?
Zev Steinhardt
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/011214.html
There is no figure since there is no mentioning of a “figure” regarding the description of what is commonly taken as “virgins” in paradise (a description that is to be taken, as all such descriptions in relgiious books, as methaphorical describing a state of happiness and peace that goes beyond human imagination).
Salaam. A
Yeah. And the Song of Solomon is an allegory.
Looking at the “column” Tamerlane linked to.
That article is completely out of line and not only because of the stupid “playboy” comment but even much more because of its complete disregard for the description of boys as well as women who are to serve the Muslims in Paradise.
If Cecil wants to write about Islam he would do better to inform himself befor publishing anything.
Salaam A.
Looking at the “column” Tamerlane linked to.
That article is completely out of line and not only because of the stupid “playboy” comment but even much more because of its complete disregard for the description of boys as well as women who are to serve the Muslims in Paradise.
If Cecil wants to write about Islam he would do better to inform himself before publishing anything.
Salaam A.
There’s a school of thought that the “virgins” are a mistranslation of “white grapes” or “raisins.” This article from a Mulsim scholar appeared in The Guardian and may shed some light on that: link
This stems from some work of a German linguist who was doing work at UC Berkeley, wish I had a better cite for that but I don’t.
In any event if this appears in a hadith and not the Quran, it should be kept in mind that different sects of Muslims accept somewhat different sets of hadith as apocryphal or true, and dependent upon where precisely the passage appears it may not be of value to some.
Did you even read Tamerlane’s cite?
I see a pretty strong correlation between these two quotes. That being said, if you take the perjorative statements out of the OP, there still leaves the question of, why 72, instead of 77 or some other number. Obviously, as you say, it’s meant as a symbolic number, not as an explicit statement of fact.
That’s quite interesting. In fact, in the portion of the Koran that Cecil quotes, some allusion to grapes would make more sense than “full breasted maidens”. Before and after that clause are references to grapeyards and wine. Could someone expand upon the translation of the Arabic word WakawaAAiba[sic]?
Once again, I meant nothing pejorative in the OP, it’s just my strange way of phrasing questions. Any insults taken should be directed to terrorists, not Muslims in general.
Anyway, yeah, why 72? And why 80,000 for that matter? In that culture the mystical numbers seem to be 3, 7, 13, and 40. 6 is a bad number, which is why 666 is really bad.
Is 9 special in any way? Is 9 times 7 considered a multitude?
The word used is “houris” and it is commonly translated as “virgins” because of the indication that these creatures are and stay always in a state of innocence and purety.
The link with being served in Paradise by perpetual virgins (of both sexes) was already made by the first Muslims.
Don’t forget by all of this that we speak of patriarchal male dominated societies (and we still do especially when it comes to the region people associate the “Jihad” with these days).
There are many books and articles written on the influence of other languages on the text of Al Qur’an. Some of them are well founded, other rather dubious in their claims.
This certainly has worth in the sense that indeed some difficult passages could become clearer for todays readers, yet in my opinion that misses the goal because you can’t say such a thing with any certitude.
To say it shortly: To bring forward a possible influence of other languages on the dialect of Muhammed does in no way ever exclude the possibility that words taken from one language into an other can undergo a change in meaning (and/or in writing). It also does not exclude the possible influence of the Arabic dialects on these surrounding languages either.
We see such interactions between languages still on a daily level. Even when it comes to two closely related languages and even when talking about dialects in the same language you can already have a different meaning of the same word.
That was also the reason why, when Uthman ordered the re-redaction of Al Qur’an, he ordered that in case of doubt the dialect of the Quraish should overrule other suggestions for a word.
Salaam. A
Looks like there is at least one reading of the passage in question where it does, indeed, mean grapes. Cite
That reading does appear to in the minority, though.
The GQ here is: Is the number 72 significant in Islam and if so why? I am curious myself.
Haj
Short answer is that I have no idea.
However poking around, I did find this:
*Interestingly, the number 72 appears repeatedly in both traditions. When Imam Husayn undertook his ill-fated expedition to Karbala in 680, he was accompanied by 72 close friends and family members. According to John 10:1, Jesus sent a group of 72 disciples out to preach. One hadith (narrative tradition) attributed to the Prophet Muhammad asserts that the Muslim community will be split into 72 sects. Also, in Numbers 31:38, it is written that 72 oxen were part of the booty after Moses defeated the Midianites. According to Shi’i legend, 72 camels were slain at Fatima’s wedding. In Bahr al-Fawa’id, a twelfth-century Persian treatise on politics, the author writes that if a king champions justice in his realm, 72 persons will intercede for him on the Day of Judgment. *
From here: http://uncpress.unc.edu/chapters/bill_roman.html
Actually it is Luke 10:1, but close enough for government work.
What this has to do with anything is beyond me. It might be that it started semi-randomly ( perhaps in the aforementioned Luke ) and got picked up as a number of mystical significance by association. But that is pure WAG.
Just for fun 
( found in same search ) :
What do female martyrs get? 72 virile young men?
Correction: That reading is the reading of that one individual.
I don’t have time nor do I have interest for reading every suggestion made on the internet by a Muslim who wants to read Al Qur’an how he thinks he should read it (This one could be Moroccan when looking at his description of the use of the word in his dialect).
Suffice to say that Modern Standard Arabic - let alone the dialects - is not the same as Classical Arabic, which has specific additional/other rules of grammar and additional/other words then used in MSA and in addition also can attribute other meanings to words that are in use in both in MSA and Classical Arabic.
In addition to this: Within the section named “Classical Arabic” the Quranic Arabic has a place of its own.
If this person wants to read what he thinks is there, I have no objections to make about that as long as he does not twist the meaning of the message into something that is completely out of line with the commands of Al Qur’an = the commands of Islam.
Which brings us back to the “72 virgins” story that has nothing to do at all with Islam or Al Qur’an but with some obscure mentioning in some obscure hadith.
Hadith are not Al Qur’an = NO hadith can be looked at as representing the Word of God, as is believed Al Qur’an represents by the vast majority of Muslims on this globe.
By mentioning “Jihad” I guess the OP wants to mention terrorism committed in the idea that the reward shall be “72 virgins” in Paradise :
Hence declaring that killing innocents is the path to heaven is in clear contradiction with Islam. This does not change if there are yes or no in heaven 80000 or 72 or no virgins waiting for you.
As I said earlier in this thread: all descriptions of “Paradise” should be taken as an attempt to describe a situation and state of being that goes beyond human imagination.
Nobody knows what Paradise "looks like"or what there will be “available”.
Saying this however does not sell the message, does it? Describing a place that is imaginable for people does.
In my view and experience, one of the reasons this “72 virgins” fantasy appeals that much to deluded people who think these days that terrorism = Jihad is because in the Arab/ME in general mindset (and certainly not excluding any other culture here) a “man” is still “a man” and you need to prove your manhood constantly. (This not only refers to sex as you maybe think, it is a complete cultural concept that I guess you must “live” to be able to understand the finesses of it)
What better way to prove and to feel yourself alive “as a man” then when having 72 young virgins available all at once to have sex with?
Add to this that these days at many places in the Islamic/Arabic/ME societies it is very difficult for many young man to even find a job, let alone to be able to marry (= take responsibility for wife and children which means: also financially).
I can understand how a dream of Paradise filled with virgins waiting for you can start clouding the perspective of reality with some who are vulnarable for such manipulations. Those who sell this “message” to these young men know extremely well which buttons they push. This sort of cultural inspired tricks that seek “justification” in religion to add at their impact, have a history of showing themselves to be very effective.
Salaam. A
It is connected with the whole discussion surrounding the influences of already existing religions Muhammed supposedly underwent.
It is no surprize at all however to find such influences reflected in hadith (and in the teachings of certain sects even the more recent ones who claim to be founded in Islam. The Nation of Islam being the USA example).
Salaam. A