I can’t really choose any of the answers because they’ve changed. When I was younger, I got hit on a lot. Now…I think the last time a gal flirted with me and was somewhat serious about it was nearly 10 years ago.
If you want to start a new poll on same-sex hitting, knock yourself out. 
I voted “a handful of times” but there almost certainly were others that I just wasn’t aware of (see previous discussion regarding obliviousness, to which I don’t have a lot to add). There were two instances I can think of where there was actual unmistakable physical contact.
I guess it depends on the context, but if you’re at some social place, where she knew lots of people, and some chick totally thought you were a creep with moss on your teeth, why would she spend any time talking to you at all?
I suppose it all depends on how much value one places on having a “date,” instead of just screwing around and having fun at any given moment – if a date is some big event, instead of just hanging out with somebody you want to bone or whose box you want to have for chow, then it might be building up things a bit much to the point where, yes, it could be pretty dramatic. In either event, though, if you’re really having a conversation, then it doesn’t seem outrageous to say, “Hey, they got some ancient Retard skeletons at the museum next week – I got a membership. Wanna go?” You’d say the same thing to any friend, so why not this new friend you just met?
Anyway, for men I think women already know you want to fingerbang them through their purty pink panties – they know what lurks inside those assless leather chaps of the male mind.
Except it isn’t true for the vast majority of them for men like me. I will talk to anyone that can give good conversation. Most of those women would be incorrect in thinking I want to fingerbang them or bang them in any other way because I am so picky in that way. I assume that many men are the same way and most women are. That is one reason I am so careful about not picking up on signals that may not be there. I don’t want to lead them on either. I have turned women down before or given the ‘just be friends’ speech and that isn’t fun.
Nowadays, absolutely never. (And I really like it that way.) In my younger, Barbie Doll days it was a constant. I couldn’t walk anywhere without hearing catcalls or getting the shy hopeful looks from every 3rd guy in the vicinity.
This. I know I talk to women that I have no interest in, because I am a decent human being who sees the opposite sex as more than potential mates. Decent people will hold a conversation with someone if it is interesting regardless of romantic/sexual interest. It’s pretty stupid to say, it doesn’t take any courage to ask a girl out, because she’s already talking to you, she must be interested.
That said, I think it is something guys will have to get over if they don’t want to be alone, because even attractive fun to be around guys like my friend, will be alone the vast majority of the time if they can’t get over it.
Would still like an answer to if girls who don’t ask guys out are undateable losers who deserve to be alone from even sven or if that standard only applies to men.
Of course. Allow me to clarify: I think women tend to think many men want to blast them in the vag. The old little cliche’ “Men think about sex all the time,” and the conventions of female demureness (crossing legs when sitting, so forth).
It’s a line I have trouble with – believe me, I know a lot of women I absolutely would never fuck ever, and the one thing that can never happen is leading them on. That would be terribly mean.
But is it really so extraordinary that, let’s say, among two people of equivalent attractiveness, a woman isn’t going to have an inkling that this guy probably wouldn’t mind taking off the chaps and having a ride? It’s sort of like, biology and stuff, isn’t it? Obviously there are cases where friendship is more important, anything else, but in a pretty lubricated social setting, where two people don’t have a history, I believe I’m not too far off.
I agree.
Me too. Women never ever use phrases like “boning” or “give some dude a hummer” or “beanflicking” or anything remotely coarse. Where have all the manners gone? For real, you think women only talk all sweet and shit? Maybe you have to get to know a few first before they start talking “dirty,” and some don’t speak blue, but haven’t you ever watched a training film?
As to the above “pretty stupid” idea that if a woman’s talking to you, she’s interested – that’s not the idea. The idea is that in certain contexts and given certain cues the fact can be a pretty strong indication that she wouldn’t cut your dick off if you asked her to go play some tennis or walk through a museum or grab a real drink or whatever. In fact, it’s expected if you two like each other.
It’s pretty simple- if people consistently react to your actions in a way that makes sense to you, then you are probably reading their emotional signals correctly. For example, if people generally laugh when you make a joke, chances are you are pretty good at reading signals for “now is a good time for a light-hearted diversion.” If they consistently react in ways that don’t seem to make sense (for example, by rejecting you when you thought you had built a good rapport), chances are you are not reading them right. If the opposite sex continually act in baffling ways, it’s pretty likely that there is something you aren’t quite “getting.”
Why the hell would you be baring your feelings to- or even having bareable feelings about- someone you haven’t even gone on a the perfunctory coffee date with yet?
This is the heart of the matter. When someone becomes much more emotionally invested in a relationship than you are, it can be extremely uncomfortable or even genuinely threatening- even if the other party is otherwise a pretty likable person. People want to go into a dating relationship free from a lot of pressure or expectations. It’s a time to have fun, get to know each other, and assess the potential to move forward to more involved romantic and/or sexual interaction. But if you get the idea that the other party is already picking out baby names/condom flavors/engagement rings, it stops being that and it starts feeling uncomfortable because at that point it is not about you, as a human being, but about some idea about you that they have built up in their head without your input. And once you know that someone is building up a lot of one-sided ideas about you, it gets uncomfortable because that is erratic, unpredictable, depersonalizing behavior that means there is potential for other erratic, unpredictable, depersonalizing (and potentially dangerous) behavior.
When men do this, it comes off as “creepy” or “awkward.” When women do this, it comes off “the crazy” or “psycho.” In both cases, it’s about an asymmetrical attraction that isn’t appropriate to where the relationship is at that point.
And that is why the “casual, not-too-invested” ask is nice. Because it kindly allows the other partner a chance to actually, you know, get to know you before they feel expected to be serious and invested.
Are women who make don’t make the first move “losers?” No. But women do plenty of dumbass stuff that screws them over in dating. Women who are so insecure or supplicating that they allow the guys they date to treat them as booty calls or back-up plans (assuming that is not their preferred arrangement) are going to find themselves consistently in a bad spot, for example. The same goes with women who do not maintain their body and mind- a fit, well-read, wordly woman is going to have dating options that an obese woman whose only interest is celebrity gossip does. That’s unpleasant and not fair, sure. But it’s a reality.
So my friend who is a great guy who is handsome and fun to be around, but doesn’t feel comfortable making the first move is an anti-social loser, but if he was a girl who felt the same she would be fine. That version of “reality” only exists in your mind, and I think you are incredibly judgemental.
To be fair to you, you never said that men who don’t make the first move are losers, rogerbox put that word in your mouth.
To come back to what you did say: Would you say that most women “figure either they say “yes” and you’ll hopefully have a good time, or they will say “no” and you will move on to someone else” and take it as lightly as that? Because if they do, I would expect women to ask out men as often as men ask out women.
If requiring courage to ask someone out is social awkwardness and that this means the person is emotionally damaged or extremely awkward, then women who require courage to ask men out are emotionally damaged or extremely awkward. Do you agree?
"Why the hell would you be baring your feelings to- or even having bareable feelings about- someone you haven’t even gone on a the perfunctory coffee date with yet? "
Because you got to know them at school/work/hobby/through friends before asking them out. Interacting with someone in those settings can tell you more than a coffee date. It’s possible to have some expectations at that point without having picked out baby names. It’s not like it’s a binary choice between either no expectations or having picked out baby names. There are degrees inbetween those two extremes.
I voted once a week or so. That means that I go to runs and get hit on all day long, then I go to work. I just averaged it out.
My 5 minutes to edit were up:
I agree that if you’re thinking of marriage/baby names before you’ve been dating someone for a few months, you should engage in serious introspection because you’re getting carried away.
So if a guy can’t make the first move because he’s nervous, he’s 1) socially awkward in EVERY situation, 2) unfun to be around, 3) more likely to be a crazy stalker, 4) more likely not to work through disagreements well, 4) a worse partner 5) emotionally damaged.
I think it’s safe to use “loser” as short hand for those 5 things even sven assumes about guys who are nervous about asking girls out. As I said my friend is considered fun to be around by myself AND ALSO GIRLS we know, he just has a very hard time working himself up to ask a girl out.
Women have hit on me just a few times in my entire life. I may not have noticed if there were more, though.
The angst from straight guys about asking women out always sort of baffles me. Don’t you pick up on nonverbal signals and stuff? When I’m single, I don’t just toss my phone number at any random hot guy and hope he’s into dudes. There’s eye contact, body language, little ways of hinting at what you both want before anybody says a word. Waters are tested, receptivity is known.
No. And really, the men who say they do are the ones who get labeled delusional stalkers (“she really wanted me, I could tell!”); so either men aren’t good at it, women don’t really want men to do that, or both.
Being a man yourself, I think you “get” other guys. You understand them. As a straight man, I know exactly when another man is sending interest signals at me until he realizes I’m not returning them.
No such luck with women. The only ones I know for sure are hitting on me are drunk, and very non-subtle about it.
Same thing with me from both guys AND girls. I manage less than once a year or so from girls, but close enough that I figure I am missing some signals so I picked once a year.