I know online diagnosis is pretty much pointless but I have a specific question about a specific mindset and how to help it if possible.
I have a friend Anna, who had some pretty messy relationship issues. In a nutshell the father(Mark) of her teenage child is now married to her sister (Cindy).
Mark got together with Cindy within weeks of their separation (3 years ago). Most of her family seems to have sided with Cindy and Mark and think Anna is wrong to not be happy for them. I assume something was very much going on before the breakup, possibly for a long time.
The issue: Anna seems to feel that she must be worthless/bad/horrible person because several someones who she loved and trusted have chosen to write her off for their own desire. The only option Anna can imagine is that she is somehow the one at fault for everyone to turn on her. I have told her that this is not normal and most families would be very hesitant to accept such a scenario. That if anyone is to blame its Mark and Cindy for betraying her trust, most likely conducting an extensive affair of some kind, leading to the eventual destruction of Anna and Marks relationship. As you might imagine, she doesen’t trust easily.
Is there a general guideline for redirecting this seemingly destructive mindset? I tell her shes not worthless and that she is the victim of a betrayal, not the cause of it, and that she should not feel like a bad person because of their choices. It would seem she would need to stop blaming herself before she is ever going to feel any better about herself.
Mentioning counseling generally elicits a reaction of “I’m not crazy” so its kinda tough to get professional help even though I would imagine there is some help a therapist could offer.
So is there anything a supportive friend can do to chip away at the damaged areas? Especially when any family gathering = having to see Mark and Cindy together.
FTR, I do have some interest in Anna but I seriously doubt its ever going to come to anything romantic under the circumstances. I’m more interested in what to say to be supportive when she starts lamenting the disaster area that is her relationship history.
Why does Anna have to be the victim or the cause? Why can’t she just be Anna?
It’s not necessarily Anna’s fault that her relationship with Mark didn’t work out, nor is it necessary for her to be a victim for his departure.
She should accept the fact that he’s gone and that he and her sister are in a relationship. Dwelling on the past and the potential reasons or responsibilities is not helpful.
Anna should try and examine what, if anything, she contributed to the demise of their relationship, not for blaming but to see if there is anything she needs to work on for future relationships. The sooner she accepts that Mark and Cindy are in a relationship, regardless, the sooner Anna will be able to move on with her own life.
The goal isn’t to get the score right so far, but to move forward in a healthy manner.
This was kinda my first thought… but I am old enough and wise enough to stop and think is it really helpful to offer to torch her moms house during thanksgiving dinner or maybe there is a more constructive way to help.
Yeah, let them eat their dinner first. I wouldn’t advocate any more than verbally standing up for herself a bit, but Omar Little is right, she’s got to shake the victim angle.
The best way to help your friend would be to get her to a professional therapist and stop armchair analyzing the situation. You’re not involved in this situation in any way. If you want to date her at some eventual point, she’s going to have to move past this betrayal. You can’t do that for her. But you also shouldn’t try to date her until she has moved past this shit.
FTR, here’s my perspective: whoa, that’s really shitty of her sister. If something like that happened in my family (or any normal family), the sister would be the one ostracized. No question. Sisters before misters!
In my experience if someone is determined to see themselves as a worthless shit and/or as an oppressed victim there is no power on earth, no amount of talking, therapy, drugs, or love that will turn them from that path. They have often spent years cementing themselves into place and trying to get them off that destructive and negative self definition is like trying to pull a barnacle off a rock.
As strange as it sounds they have a huge psychological investment in that negative self image.
They may change at some point, but it will not be because of anything you did or did not do. It has to be internal.
I’m with Astro on this one. I very much doubt there’s anything you can do to change her perception.
I imagine this single incident is just the tip of the iceberg; that’s an extremely shitty way for family to act. Anna is choosing to feel belittled and victimized, though. She is getting some internal benefit from reacting this way, I’m guessing. Perhaps internalizing anger is more comfortable for her than expressing it. Or she has a history or choosing men who are cheaters because she doesn’t feel like she deserves a good man. Or something…
I would disabuse her toot sweet of the notion that counseling is only for “crazy people.” That is a very outdated perception. Hell every other person (including me) has been in counseling for something at one point in their lives and none are crazy. Just, sometimes, confused, or needing an outside perspective. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn’t, but if one is unhappy with the status quo, why not try it?
She may not be crazy but she does seem a tad hard-headed, not taking your valid suggestion and even giving it a try. And maybe just a little co-dependant. Because I can’t see any other reason for tolerating such behavior from her family.
Why doesn’t she remove herself from the situation? Most people stay close to their families because it makes them feel good…but they seem toxic to me. (Toward her. They may not be that way as a general rule.)
And just because the guy’s her daughter’s father doesn’t mean she has to be around him all the time. Visitation doesn’t have to include the adults.
Maybe that’s the key word here. Adult.
Do you feel like she needs to be looking at this from another perspective? (And good luck trying to make any of them think they’re wrong. I’ve found that people don’t usually do things because they think it’s wrong; they do things because they think it’s right.) So maybe it’s her choice whether to try to figure out where they’re coming from in order to present an arguement that might actually sway them—or she can say f*%k it and just start living a better life without them.
I disagree specifically with the idea that no amount of therapy can turn them from that path. Therapy can help someone who sees themself as worthless or victimized understand how destructive those thoughts are, and learn ways to think differently. There’s no guarantee that it will work, of course, but there is ample evidence that it can work. One way to approach the idea of counseling/therapy with your friend might be to suggest that a therapist might be able to work with her to change the things that cause her relationships to fail. The idea is to present therapy as a way to work toward having healthy relationships, rather than a way to “fix the crazy.” Another option is to suggest some cognitive therapy self-help books, such as Feeling Good or * Learned Optimism*, that are specifically designed to help people feel better about themselves. The exercises can be very helpful for some people, particularly in changing the “I’m worthless” mindset.