So at a group camping trip last weekend, my wife and I made plans with another couple to go houseboating next summer on Lake Mead outside of Las Vegas. Though we don’t have kids, they do. Their kids are in the 5-7 year old range, are very well behaved, and easily entertained, so we aren’t worried that they will otherwise be bored.
Enter couple #3, who are otherwise fun to have on a camping trip/party, but who we don’t know all that well. They overhear us discussing plans and are interested in doing this trip as well. The guy in the couple is re-married, and has two young teenagers from the previous marriage who we have never met. This couple has also previously flaked on more than one group event (when money was not on the line). Here are the concerns:
We now need a bigger boat, and though it will cost less money per family divided three ways, if they flake, we may not be able to get a smaller boat last minute, and end up eating a lot of unnecessary cost for a larger boat that also uses more gas. Perhaps having them put down a deposit will fix this, but perhaps not.
We’ve never met the teenage kids, and have no idea if we will get along with them, or if they will get along with the younger kids.
We’ve never spent any prolonged time with the other couple in close quarters. Maybe they’re great, and maybe they aren’t and will ruin the trip for us.
Meals will now need to be coordinated with three families instead of two, which just makes everything harder.
I mentioned my concerns to the couple we want to go with, and they only seemed concerned about the flake factor. They seem convinced they’d get along with the teenagers they’ve never met, but I’m less certain. I find it odd that I’ve never seen these kids on a camping trip or party before. I plan to conveniently ‘forget’ to ask them when we book the houseboat and invite them to ‘get their own’ and join us if they want (on a separate boat) when it comes up. That would obviously cost them a lot more, and they would probably not come at that point, but I fear I will be approached at several other group outings over the year asking about this vacation, as that is this guy’s nature. He sounds convinced he is invited to come. We see this couple often enough that I don’t want to be brutally honest with them, and maybe in time I’ll come to trust them enough to feel comfortable inviting them on a future trip, but not today…
How do I gracefully tell them “I don’t trust you to not flake and I’m worried that your teenage kids will be jerks. You’re welcome to come as long as you get your own boat so I don’t have to worry about you ruining my vacation”. Or should I just not worry so much and risk it?
How important is it to you to not hurt the feelings of couple #3? Are you in the same social circle or something like that, where you’d want to avoid potential future awkwardness? In other words, how important is tact in this situation?
Think Todderbob nailed it in the first reply. But Hell, anything is better than being stuck on a boat with two small kids and two teenagers. Do whatever it takes to get out of that. Even let two teenager guy go on the boat with two young kids guy, and you go do something else…anything else.
Tell them you need their share of the money when you make the reservation, that way everyone’s committed. Get over being worried about the two teenage daughters. Most likely they will occupy themselves away from the rest of the group anyway.
Tact is important because we will run into this couple at dozens of group events a year, not just the odd camp out. And who knows? Maybe they will eventually be great friends and we’ll invite them everywhere. I’m just ready to do that yet. If I barely know them, I’m not ready to go on vacation with them.
The deposit might scare them off, but I could just as easily see them cough it up, then demand it back last minute if they flake on the basis some (possibly real) crisis came up. There is something about his job in specialized construction that seems to be an issue, which has been the source of previous flake events, but we’re talking about them not showing up to a BBQ; not a vacation where money is on the line.
The two mystery teenagers in question are both boys (not girls). The other couple that we like has a 7 year old boy and 5 year old girl (I think).
And if I just tell them “no”, without an explanation, I think I’d be writing off ever having a good relationship with them and future encounters would be pretty awkward since they clearly want to go.
Oh, and the “we already have an obligation on a 2 family boat” excuse won’t fly because they know we haven’t booked anything yet. We just made the plans right there at the camp site and haven’t picked a date yet. Couple #3 joined the conversation about 15 minutes after we decided on it and were just starting to work out details based on our knowledge of what types of boats were available.
Then they werent potential friends and theres nothing to worry about telling them to get bent. Just be clear up front its non refundable.
Or just say you’d rather try it with a smaller group first time round given its a boat. They’re already being a bit pushy by self inviting in the first place.
Say, “It looks like making this trip happen will require nonrefundable deposits. Are you guys fine with that?”
And if they are and give you the money, take a (small) risk and go. It’ll probably be great. If they bail, you’ll have already been up front that it was nonrefundable.
I think it’s probably better to find a safe-ish way to include them. I wouldn’t worry about the teens at all. Teens drive their own parents crazy, but probably won’t interact with strange adults much.
“I’m sorry, we’ve already made plans for a private vacation for just our two families weeks/months ago. I’m sure you understand.”
Perhaps the subtle hint will penetrate his brain that it’s really fucking rude to invite yourself on someone else’s vacation. Personally I wouldn’t worry too much about him getting his panties in a wad over this; this misstep was his, not yours, and the response above is both polite and honest. If he has a problem with your politeness or the existence of reality, that’s his issue. I wouldn’t want to hang around a guy like that anyway.
By my count, you already have SIX people on a houseboat. Including them is going to bring that number to ten. Personally, I’d be a little stressed with just my family on a houseboat. Another few people would put me in “there had better be booze” territory. Four more on top of that would send me right over into "someone is going to end up in the bottom of Lake Mead with an anchor tied to them.
And I’d probably say it that way - but sometimes I can be tactless - “ten people on a houseboat sounds like something that would drive me to tie an anchor to someone and throw them overboard. And since I don’t know your kids, they’d be the likely candidates. I think its best if we don’t get to know your kids in tight corners where bodies are easily disposed of.”
If you’ve never done a houseboat before, you can say that you want to start small. If you have, you can say that you prefer the smaller one. Inviting themselves on your vacation is not good evidence that they would be good traveling companions, and it does not establish an obligation on your part to include them.
My bet is that if Husband #3 invited himself to this trip then he probably invites himself and his family to all sorts of events. So, he’s probably used to getting turned down, either directly or with some obvious excuse. And so all you really need to do is use any of the nice excuses given here, and add something vague about maybe doing something next year. Just give him something polite and face-saving.
Just tell them the deposit is non-refundable because you’re going to have to get a bigger boat and that you’ll still have the bigger boat even if they flake.
Also, have you thought about the fact that the teenagers can babysit if the adults want to do something alone on shore?
Well, what’s so bloody damn awful about just saying that?
“I’m sorry, I’m just not comfortable going on vacation with people I haven’t known a long time, especially in close quarters like a houseboat. Please don’t take it personally; you’re lovely people, I just wouldn’t be comfortable doing this with anyone I’ve known this short a time. Maybe next year I’ll be ready.”
Bolding mine. Wow. Do not let them dick you over on this. Do not let them even entertain the notion of maybe getting the deposit back.
Make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, in no uncertain terms, that the deposit is ABSOLUTELY NOT REFUNDABLE.
Also make it clear that you don’t even want to hear the faintest echo of their asking for it back, or bitching about not getting back, either of which will land them on the “can’t plan with these folks because they do not honor their obligations” list. And neither of which will get them any money back.
Make THEM say “I/we understand this deposit is GONE once it’s given to you, and I/we will NOT get ANY of it back NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS” – don’t just let them agree to your saying it, MAKE THEM SAY IT.
Or alternatively, tell them they can’t go because you think they’re irresponsible dishonorable flakes who will cost you a bunch of money that you just can’t afford to lose.