Yeah, they just seem to be so overt now. Or maybe I’m just seeing it more, but this has my stress level very high.
Even with Biden likely winning the election, there are still some very disturbing signs which are coming to light in these past few weeks.
Look, I think there has always been isolated election day shenanigans - politics is a rough sport sometimes. It’s always been that way. But the scale and audacity it takes for supporters to form blockades that disrupt and essentially immobilize the political activity of the opposition, as we are starting to see in a number of cases (Texas in particular), is a really bad sign for a democracy.
As I put it on another thread, democracy requires an implicit understanding of cooperation, not just barely staying within the limits of what is strictly legal. The peaceful transition of power depends on this kind of cooperation. People can argue “Well, elections can be settled in courts - it’s legal, after all.”
Maybe, but it sure as hell ain’t good for the health of a democratic republic. Both sides have to agree to a set of rules, both explicit and implicit. Both sides have to agree that when the scoreboard says that there is a clear winner, the loser agrees to concede and cooperate with the winner. It doesn’t necessarily mean ‘agree’ with the victor, but cooperate with them.
It’s obvious that Trump is not going to cooperate with the opposition, but that by itself wouldn’t be a problem if others around him, including the millions of supporters he has, didn’t enable him. But they are enabling him, and they have been. And I’m sorry, but on some level, you can’t tell me that they don’t realize what they’re doing isn’t some form of bullying and antidemocratic behavior. They know it is - they just refuse to condemn it and make excuses for it. Because reasons.
I’ve said a lot of things that are pretty fucking harsh aimed in the direction of Trump supporters and red state ‘shit kickers’ (i.e. Trump supporters), and I caught hell for it, but this is why it had to be said. Nazi Germany didn’t happen. It happened because millions of people let it happen, and that’s what I see here. And I don’t think our problems are going to end with a Biden victory either. The damage that these people have done to this country by holing themselves up in their little information cocoons is going to take years to undo. It may never be undone.
I’m less worried about the results of this election than I am about future elections. When 40% of the country is just fine with fascism as long as they’re in charge, that’s worrisome. Until the Republican Party is ground into the earth and salted over, democracy is in peril.
What I hope is that an early Florida call for Biden will preempt any attempt at the Republicans trying to steal the White House. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Barr’s thugs raid urban precincts and confiscate and destroy ballots that they suspect aren’t going their way.
There is no doubt in my mind that Biden will win it…just as there is no doubt in my mind that Trump and the Trumpettes will do everything possible to steal it. This has little to do with getting the most votes.
It’s all but certain that Trump will lose and that he will refuse to concede. I think the Republicans will make unprecedented efforts to overturn the presidential/congressional election results through the courts. I also think that outraged Trump supporters will lash out violently in the coming weeks. Moreover, I think Trump will find a way to pardon himself.
It also would not be surprising if Trump tried to use federal law enforcement or other forces to stay in power. What would be surprising (but not impossible) is if such forces decided to heed his commands.
Is that scenario bad? Yes, it is bad.
My concern is that even when Trump loses, he will not stop rabble rousing and gulling the rubes. He’ll need them especially if investigations yield criminal indictments against him. Unless Trump does a runner into Vlad’s protective arms, he’s not going to go quietly. He’s been mainlining the MAGAdrug for too long and he’s going to continue to maintain his supply to feed his narcissism.
not worried , I voted so I did my part. Very ticked off if Trump somehow wins
Mine too. Now that white supremacists have a president who will overtly pander to them, there is a real danger that our institutions are rotted enough that they won’t survive Trump’s assaults and that white supremacists in the military and law enforcement will support his attacks on democracy. He openly laughs about violence against protesters and the plot to kidnap Democrats in elected office. We very much should be afraid, not just for election day but over the years of hard work it will take to dismantle the obstacles to democracy that the GOP has built.
Ya mean like this? 
That is just the tip of the iceberg.
Slightly to moderately worried about the election. Trump, in his usual half-assed way, has failed (so far) to do much to affect the voting process, and it appears increasingly likely that he will lose the popular vote and the EC by a significant margin. He can file all the lawsuits he wants, but AFAIK unless or until the courts rule in his favor, the apparent winner remains the winner.
If for some reason Trump prevails, there is still a good chance the senate flips. Four years of Presidential lame-duckery, while not ideal, is at least something.
Very worried about the long term health of the American “democracy”, particularly the increasing acceptance of political violence as a valid means of addressing structural issues.
Grains of comfort for me include:
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Most republicans are not, in fact, stupid armed thugs looking for violence to commit. Even the police are not. I believe that the election violence will be fairly small and localized. It will be very heavily covered by the press and there will immense public outrage.
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The press. We still have a free press. We will know what is going on.
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Trump threatens to do a thousand things that he does not in fact do. Either he is prevented by the remaining forces of good, or, often enough, he never meant to do them to begin with. It is a strategy he has always used.
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The large majority of Republican politicians are not sociopaths, just power-hungry in an ordinary way. If they don’t see a clear path to staying in power, they will start looking for a happy landing elsewhere, like any other politician. If Trump is a clear loser in the election, I think we will see a lot of rats jumping ship.
I think that, very soon, Trump will turn the White House into a fortress-high walls and very restricted access.
These are my thoughts to. Like Trump a lot of blowhards on the hard right talk the talk but rarely walk the walk, too.
I’ve seen incidents of favouritsm and political statements by police on Facebook and Twitter but given a nation of hundreds of millions it’s very few.
I also ponder at times if even the ultra-rich have no stomach for this to get ugly. Their wealth depends on capitalism, and American capitalism depends especially on everyone buying the ‘myth’ (not necessarily saying it’s a false myth or not) of a free nation where everyone can do what they like. A country that blatantly overthrows overwhelming votes against the incumbent would rapidly cease to be like that. I wonder if they’d rather Trump go so they can try to get back to their handling everything through banal manipulation as before.
But then, these things can somewhat run out of people’s control.
My feeling is we’ll know soon enough Biden wins, hopefully by a historic landslide, and Trump just embarrasses himself by trying to overturn it. Cases of violence erupt but is responded to by a coordinated, cross-partisan appeal to reason.
Yeah, I’m naive.
How is Biden having a 90% chance of winning a tossup?
I presume he’s referring to how the College can pull all sorts of nasty surprises that upset expectations. 10% chance of win for Trump is still chilling.
538 has explicitly said they’re not factoring in Trump winning the presidency illegitimately. This election is not likely to be decided by votes cast, it is going to won by votes counted. Hence my point that if the Republicans win, it will be a dark day for democracy in the USA. They are only likely to win this election via undemocratic means. If that happens, then you ain’t seen nothin’ yet for how they will do to tips the scales next time. Why wouldn’t they when their supporters are applauding their efforts? Even if they do win democratically, they’ve seen that anti-democracy is not a losing issue. It boggles my mind that we’ve reached a point where democracy is a partisan issue.
We’ve already seen a Trump supporter shoot protesters and be praised by the president; a couple point guns at unarmed protesters and get invited to speak at the Republican National Convention, other far right terrorists plot to kidnap two Democratic governors; a Democratic event cancelled in Georgia because of terroristic threats; and a terrorist attack by Trump supporters on a caravan of Biden supporters that was encouraged by Don Jr. and praised by Trump after the attack. I would agree that you are naive.
Fair enough. I’m at one remove looking from across the Pond.
What you really ought to be worried about is that when Trump loses, the UK will officially be in first place for the worst leader of the free world.