How would you go about knocking off a God?

[Acid_Lamp]

@The_Other_Waldo_Pepper

For the sake of clarity, where in the OT or NT does it describe him as being omnipotent or omniscient?

Well to be frank, it never really does. In the king James version, the word “omnipotent” is used a few times, but the Greek word it was translated from was “almighty”. The problem isn’t in the word, but in the definition of the term. A conservative definition would be having unlimited power, or the the most that anyone can possess. Nothing in that implies that god is exempt from the laws of physics, nor is able to alter them at will. It only means that he has the Knowledge and the means to do whatever is possible within the system.

Genesis, King James version states:

Genesis 1

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

A literal reading of the text implies that there was something before the earth. “The Deep” which was full of darkness. Space ought to fit that bill nicely. Then they mention that god was moving on the waters. I’m not certain at all what that means, but it would imply there is matter there at least. That means that god does not have the ability to create matter from nothing, it was already there to be manipulated. It implies that he does not have the ability to transmute matter to energy and vice versa either.

God then induces light to happen. he does then have the ability to either move stars around, or manipulate gravity enough to form stars and induce fusion. Good to know.
He separated the light from the darkness; setting planets into rotation is not a great task for a being who can manipulate gravity. God then goes on to play with the plate tectonics of the Earth and create land. Everything else follows, indicating a complete knowledge of matter manipulation.

So God by my understanding is a being who exists within the universe, but is in possession of the knowledge and means to completely manipulate matter. He then must be made of matter of some sort. Theoretically speaking, I agree with Der Trihs that a black hole ought to do the trick.

[figure9]

The existence of God is based on faith. If you prove that god exists then there is no need for faith. Without faith god does not exist. Proving the existence of God causes God to stop existing.

That made more sense before I typed it out.

[Der_Trihs]

@Autolycus

Combine him with Anti-God. Of course, the resulting explosion will destroy all reality as we know it.

<snip>

Do we have to kill him/Him, or is containment an option?

Combine the two, and you’ll have the answer to the question about why God needs a starship: he’s the fuel!

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

A literal reading of the text implies that there was something before the earth. “The Deep” which was full of darkness. Space ought to fit that bill nicely. Then they mention that god was moving on the waters. I’m not certain at all what that means, but it would imply there is matter there at least. That means that god does not have the ability to create matter from nothing, it was already there to be manipulated. It implies that he does not have the ability to transmute matter to energy and vice versa either.

What interests me even more about a literal reading of Genesis is that on the sixth day he made people in his image and likeness – and on the seventh day, he rested. IMHO, things get kinda weird if we add that to a Genesis quote or three from the other thread:

*“And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. Then the LORD God called to Adam and said to him, ‘Where are you?’ So he said, ‘I heard Your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself.’ And He said, ‘Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?’”

“Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. Then the LORD God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever’- therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.”

“And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar. And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”*

He asks questions with no indication that he knows the answers, and needs to step in before humans gain crucial power-ups, and rests after six days of effort? That’s an impressive showing, but it seems more like “comic-book superhero” than “omniscient omnipotence”. (If anything, he describes the outcome of mankind’s Babel project in terms more suited to omnipotence than anything he personally lays claim to.)

[madjac74]

The question should be do we want to kill God? I picture a dead God laying on the city streets, much like King Kong after his fatefull fall, and millions of people suddenly gasping “Now what?”

Aethiests would be less interesting. We would have a rush on abandoned buildings. Priests would actually fondle adults. Christians would have to find another reason to be cheerful one day a week. There would be a sequel to the bible. Athletes would have to thank someone who actually helped them get to where they are. And the Cubs would win the World Series.

But to answer the question “How would you go about knocking off a God?” Superman

[AClockworkMelon]

@Acid_Lamp

A literal reading of the text implies that there was something before the earth. “The Deep” which was full of darkness. Space ought to fit that bill nicely. Then they mention that god was moving on the waters. I’m not certain at all what that means, but it would imply there is matter there at least. That means that god does not have the ability to create matter from nothing, it was already there to be manipulated. It implies that he does not have the ability to transmute matter to energy and vice versa either.

God then induces light to happen. he does then have the ability to either move stars around, or manipulate gravity enough to form stars and induce fusion. Good to know.
He separated the light from the darkness; setting planets into rotation is not a great task for a being who can manipulate gravity. God then goes on to play with the plate tectonics of the Earth and create land. Everything else follows, indicating a complete knowledge of matter manipulation.

So God by my understanding is a being who exists within the universe, but is in possession of the knowledge and means to completely manipulate matter. He then must be made of matter of some sort. Theoretically speaking, I agree with Der Trihs that a black hole ought to do the trick.

OK, guys, we now know what we’re dealing with.

God can manipulate massive objects within the universe once a day. But he only carries the energy to do it six times before he must spend a full day charging. I think it’s clear now that we need to somehow lure him into spending all his energy making changes and make our move while he is recharging.

[Acid_Lamp]

@AClockworkMelon

OK, guys, we now know what we’re dealing with.

God can manipulate massive objects within the universe once a day. But he only carries the energy to do it six times before he must spend a full day charging. I think it’s clear now that we need to somehow lure him into spending all his energy making changes and make our move while he is recharging.

This plan depends on one key factor, is god truly all knowing as well?

[madjac74]

@Acid_Lamp

This plan depends on one key factor, is god truly all knowing as well?

If he gave us free will then there is no way God can be all knowing.

[AClockworkMelon]

Didn’t he have to investigate what happened with Adam and Eve and Cain? That suggests he’s not all knowing.

[BigT]

@madjac74

If he gave us free will then there is no way God can be all knowing.

I disagree. Think of God like a time-traveler from the future. He knows what you’re going to do, even though he didn’t make you do it.

@AClockworkMelon

Didn’t he have to investigate what happened with Adam and Eve and Cain? That suggests he’s not all knowing.

Fundies explain that as being a rhetorical question, used to make Adam and Eve feel guilty.

Anyways: for my answer in the thread: Grab God when he’s in human form playing shuffleboard, but him in a coma, and then have some Angels prove God wrong.

Of course, once God doesn’t exist, the entire universe won’t either.

[AClockworkMelon]

@BigT

Of course, once God doesn’t exist, the entire universe won’t either.

Says who? Killing my daddy doesn’t make me fade away.

Or are we using a time machine to kill God?

[madjac74]

@BigT

Of course, once God doesn’t exist, the entire universe won’t either.

Wont his son or the holy spirit just take his position?

[Autolycus]

What if God gets Alzheimer’s? Will He forget that we all exist?

[LeeshaJoy]

@BigT

Anyways: for my answer in the thread: Grab God when he’s in human form playing shuffleboard, but him in a coma, and then have some Angels prove God wrong.

[nitpick]
God was playing skee-ball, not shuffleboard.
[/nitpick]

[Autolycus]

@LeeshaJoy

[nitpick]
God was playing skee-ball, not shuffleboard.
[/nitpick]

You might think it’s a trivial difference, but then you’d be totally wrong.

[Boyo_Jim]

Seriously? To kill a god, ignore it and forget it.

[madjac74]

@Boyo_Jim

Seriously? To kill a god, ignore it and forget it.

Some people treat a zit like that but it still makes people sick and needs to be popped.

[CalMeacham]

In the recent Clash of the Titans, Perseus got Hades by using his Magic Sword on him, after destroying the Monster into which Hades had poured most of his power.
It’s not in Greek mythology, of course – I think they stole it from Lord of the Rings.

the Greeks didn’t really kill their Gods or god-like things – they banished them.

the Norse gods you could kill. but it involved the Midgard Serpent, and Fenris the Wolf, and generally the entire End of the World*. Definitely a cure worse than the disease.

*except for the above-mentioned Baldur.

[Inigo_Montoya]

@figure9

The existence of God is based on faith. If you prove that god exists then there is no need for faith. Without faith god does not exist. Proving the existence of God causes God to stop existing.

This argument is a load of dingo’s kidneys.

@AClockworkMelon

Says who? Killing my daddy doesn’t make me fade away.

Or are we using a time machine to kill God?

There are those who believe God is simply “The Universe.”

[Voyager]

@Autolycus

You might think it’s a trivial difference, but then you’d be totally wrong.

Damn right - you don’t get tickets good for valuable prizes playing shuffleboard.