Hey, parenting is tough work. But the fact that you are thinking about things like this and trying to figure what is best for you is - IMO - a good sign that you are doing a good job. We’re all basically just winging it and making it up as we go along.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Yeah, that’s fine, but as EB mentioned in the OP:
It has been a long time since I had toddlers, but it seems to me that if you are going to rely on friends and family for childcare, you may need to reconcile yourself to the fact that those friends and family may have slightly different ideas about child rearing and discipline than you do. And you have to decide in a case-by-case manner whether overall you trust an individual’s judgment, and appreciate their assistance, sufficiently to outweigh the fact that you do not have complete control over every aspect of your child’s care during the time you leave your kid with them.
[/QUOTE]
Did you miss this bit where I said basically that?
[QUOTE=eleanorigby]
… Resent away, but bite his tongue and do it. I’m not a grandparent yet, but I have to say I’ve had several living breathing examples of how not to do it. You don’t undermine the parents with bribery and making Mom and Dad the bad guys, and you don’t confuse a child with using a different “technique” of parenting, as much as that’s possible. Slapping a hand away is not an effective disciplinary method, unless said kid was reaching for something on fire. Gramps is out of line here, but not in a malicious or big way. He needs reminding, not a scene or a drama.
[/QUOTE]
It’s not so much a control issue as a trust issue between the parents and the grandparents. This may well be a one off and no big deal–I hope it is. But if the OP doesn’t mention this, how do any of us know that Gramps won’t continue or even escalate this? Now that we have more info, I’d say that the OP has nothing to worry about. But I know for me, if I had witnessed that, I would immediately wonder what was going on in this house. Obviously, not everyone here would do the same. I am uncomfortable with physical punishment and did not use it with my kids. (as a kid, I was spanked with a hairbrush–I am no fan of such a deterrent). Then again, if the kid “finds discipline hilarious” something is lacking in the discipline.
Just because they are helping out doesn’t mean that anything goes at Gramp’s house. Yes, kids can and do figure out that there are different limits depending on the caregiver, but since the kid is going through a hitting phase, it’s probably best if Gramp’s respects the OP’s position.
Slight hijack but not analogous: a friend of mine’s parents used to allow her daughter to drink Hershey’s syrup right out of the bottle–because (as they patiently explained to her), otherwise the little darling cried. Just because grandparents are veteran parents doesn’t mean they have the best judgement (of course, this goes for parents, too, so such things are situational dependent). And of course, YMMV.
[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Yeah, that’s fine, but as EB mentioned in the OP:
It has been a long time since I had toddlers, but it seems to me that if you are going to rely on friends and family for childcare, you may need to reconcile yourself to the fact that those friends and family may have slightly different ideas about child rearing and discipline than you do. And you have to decide in a case-by-case manner whether overall you trust an individual’s judgment, and appreciate their assistance, sufficiently to outweigh the fact that you do not have complete control over every aspect of your child’s care during the time you leave your kid with them.
In the widest scheme of things, can you reconcile an occasional hand slap, in a situation arguably calling for discipline, and in which a verbal warning had already proven ineffective, against all of the benefits you derive from your current relationship?
[/QUOTE]
Plus, when you criticize the care given by family and friends, you risk them not being quite so eager to give care. There may be a time down the road where you and hubby really want to go to some adult event and need someone to watch kids and where your available circle of adults is reduced to your FIL. At which point he can say “yes, I’d love to” or he can say “gee, I think I’ll be washing my hair.”
It is quite possible that your FIL is a better person than I am, but there are some people that I will not do favors for - child watching, dog taking care of, errand running. I’m a firm believer in “you don’t like the job I do, fine, I don’t need to do you any favors.”
FWIW, my parents never hit me. When I was little, if I got out of line, they put me in a chair. I could sit there until I could explain why what I did was wrong. If I maintained a pissy attitude, I could just keep on sitting there. Once I was ready, I’d say, “Well, mom told me to go outside instead of bouncing the ball in the house” or whatever. Then I could go. And I sure as hell better bounce that ball OUTSIDE from that point forward.
It worked marvelously for me. Point being, there are ways of disciplining children that don’t require hitting.
That said, when you’re dealing with very little ones, sometimes a little slap is all they understand. Under the roof of someone else, I think you have to give them leeway. But if you have ideas like the above (but more age-appropriate for the very little ones), you might drop those into the convo to help give the grandparents alternative.
And although you’ve probably done so already, OP, I’d give those grandparents some warm fuzzies for participating in your child’s life, helping you out, and so on.
ETA: Agree with Dangerosa about not “needing to do you a favor” when you don’t like the way I do it.
[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
It is quite possible that your FIL is a better person than I am, but there are some people that I will not do favors for - child watching, dog taking care of, errand running. I’m a firm believer in “you don’t like the job I do, fine, I don’t need to do you any favors.”
[/QUOTE]
Actually, they request ‘visits’ from him - it’s certainly not expected on our part, although we do appreciate it. If he didn’t visit, we’d still find a way to do what we need to do with him at home with us.
It doesn’t mean that we’re not grateful - and he’s their first and only grandchild, so he loves the attention. They do a fantastic job with him - he wouldn’t grab our hands and drag us to the door if we ask him if he wants to go see them otherwise. Which is why I’m okay with dropping the issue and letting it go. It’s not worth it to stew over it.
And just to clarify - my kid does not find discipline hilarious all the time, especially if we’ve just put him in time-out, and he’s desperate to get to the book or puzzle he was doing. He does have a tendency to think he’s a friggin’ riot most of the time, which is a family trait (my brother was the same way as a kid - hell, my brother is the same way now at 30 years old.). So he will go from “Okay, so this behavior is funny, I’m going to laugh” to “Wait a second. I don’t want to be in time-out!” in record time now. Hitting is our main issue right now - and it’s just going to take a lot of work on our part until he realizes that it is NOT okay to hit. (Oddly enough, he is gentle as can be with our cats - he is sweet with them, and neither one has ever been provoked to the point of taking a swat at him. He adores them. Granted, my girl cat is terrified of him, but she jumps if she walks past the couch in the wrong direction 
.)
[QUOTE=lobotomyboy63]
And although you’ve probably done so already, OP, I’d give those grandparents some warm fuzzies for participating in your child’s life, helping you out, and so on.
[/QUOTE]
Already taken care of - we have the potential of moving about 8 hours away to my hometown, depending on how my interview goes tomorrow, and FIL’s request was that we show him how to hook up a webcam to his computer so he can ‘chat’ with his grandson. So if the move ends up being on, he’ll be getting a webcam for Father’s Day, along with a subscription (if-needed) to a hosting site.
And we’ll just have to agree to disagree with the slap on the hand thing - most kids under two that I know have learned that the oven is hot through redirection - if I tell him ‘that’s hot, leave it alone’, he points at it and says ‘Hot, no touch’, and goes in the other direction. It took a few instances of redirection and a lot of saying the same thing over and over again, but he doesn’t go near the oven if I tell him it’s hot.
Swatting a child’s hand is no more physical punishment than snatching their hand when they try to pull away from you in the parking lot. Your FIL wasn’t trying to use pain to discipline your son, and I think you should let it go.
The fact that you brought up your past disagreements with him indicates that there is more to this than what you’re admitting.
[QUOTE=Mosier]
Swatting a child’s hand is no more physical punishment than snatching their hand when they try to pull away from you in the parking lot. Your FIL wasn’t trying to use pain to discipline your son, and I think you should let it go.
The fact that you brought up your past disagreements with him indicates that there is more to this than what you’re admitting.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, I’m just afraid of ever going back to that kind of a relationship with him. We do have a mutual respect going now, and we get along a thousand percent times better than we used to. Confrontation with him freaks me out because we’ve been doing well at rationally discussing issues instead of shouting matches like we used to have.
And I am LETTING IT GO. I’ve said that in how many posts now? I am not planning to mention it to him or discuss it with him unless another incident warrants it - and we will make that decision IF that incident occurs.
[QUOTE=Elza B]
Actually, they request ‘visits’ from him - it’s certainly not expected on our part, although we do appreciate it. If he didn’t visit, we’d still find a way to do what we need to do with him at home with us.
It doesn’t mean that we’re not grateful - and he’s their first and only grandchild, so he loves the attention. They do a fantastic job with him - he wouldn’t grab our hands and drag us to the door if we ask him if he wants to go see them otherwise. Which is why I’m okay with dropping the issue and letting it go. It’s not worth it to stew over it.
[/QUOTE]
He may not always be their first and only.
If “they” is primarily your mother in law, and events may occur where she is no longer the driver for the requests.
Requesting to visit and needing people to watch your kids at a specific time are two different things.
You know your inlaws, I don’t. I know that the difference between when mine were the only grandchildren and when mine were the oldest and my sisters both started requiring a lot of my mother’s time and attention meant I was suddenly more dependent on sitting favors with my mother in law and my own father - both of whom are more “watch the kids on my own terms” than my mother.
I guess what I’m saying is I’d let it go. I don’t think there is anyway to bring this up that doesn’t make your father in law feel like a lousy human being who feels his daughter in law doesn’t trust him with his own grandchild - and that may be a feeling that you regret instilling in him.
Hey, Elza B, maybe you should consider letting it go?
(Did I just make your head explode? 
Love ya, hon!)
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Hey, Elza B, maybe you should consider letting it go?
(Did I just make your head explode? 
Love ya, hon!)
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, c’mon Elza! Why won’t you just let it go?! 
Hey, Elza, I just wanted to chime in as someone else who doesn’t think that you necessarily have to go swatting/hitting/slapping/spanking/whatever your kids. We’ve got three kids (well, two; Whatsit the Youngest is still just a baby) that are perfectly aware that the stove is hot and shouldn’t be touched, and that the road is dangerous and not for running out into, and we’ve never had to smack them to get this across.
Also, I would be right pissed if someone caring for my children - even if they were MARVELOUS grandparents who deserve THANKS and APPRECIATION for taking on the onerous burden of watching my child - decided to smack them. Whether it was for punitive reasons or not. Because, in my household, we do not hit, and if Grandpa decides that in his household it is okay to hit, then I will be having a polite discussion with Grandpa about this. If said discussion does not achieve the desired effects (i.e., no more hitting, ever) then visits to Grandpa’s house will mysteriously dry up.
You can call me mean, bitter, deluded, ungrateful, or whatever you want. I don’t hit my kids and neither does anybody else.
[QUOTE=Chimera]
Slight Hijack;
Because this really has nothing to do with Elza B’s situation, but rather with this discussion.
There’s a bit of an argument over whose rules are paramount. Largely, I’d say it is the Parents. But you cannot simply declare that their rules must be followed to the letter under someone elses roof. This is disrespectful of the owners of that roof.
My parents had a rule regarding other people’s kids when I was growing up:
If you won’t discipline your kids in our house, We Will.
For my own part, I had some former close friends who refused to discipline their children or their animals in any way, shape or form. Then they’d drag their kids over to other people’s houses, even when they were specifically NOT invited, and let them run wild. Attempts to get them to control their children met with “Pffft!” sounds and rolled eyes. Using the word “discipline” led to shouting matches in which they would accuse me of telling them to beat their children. When I would attempt to explain that; Discipline means creating form, structure and rules, and then enforcing those rules; they would shout me down, screaming over the top of me that they were not going to beat their children! (Whereas I just figured they were too stupid to see any alternative between No Control and Beatings.)
Obviously, this caused a great deal of bad blood between them and all of their friends, because they were being disrespectful of their friends and their friends property by inflicting undisciplined little monsters on their houses and refusing to exercise or tolerate any control over those children.
And the screaming and false accusations on their end are the #1 reason why they are now former friends.
Nowadays, I babysit my 7 year old niece and 11 year old nephew on occasion. Fortunately, I’ve never had any problems with them at all. They’re well behaved, because their parents are great and they were nannied by my mother. But when they come to MY HOUSE, then the rules laid down by my sister must be tempered by the rules of my house. I have every right to have stricter rules in my house about what they are allowed to do or not do, and my sister has jack shit to say about it, excepting that I care about her and would take her feelings into consideration if she brought me any (theoretical) concerns. Also being their caretaker in that moment, I feel comfortable in relaxing some rules (under my roof) that their parents are more strict about, as long as no harm is done in the process.
[/QUOTE]
I completely agree with this, this is pretty much what my mum did when looking after friends children.
Also Elza Bi’d like to apologise somewhat for my comments earlier. Whilst I still stand by the points I made, and think your FIL was right to do what he did, I worded it a bit more forcefully/aggressively than I’d meant too, especially the last one.
[QUOTE=Dangerosa]
He may not always be their first and only.
If “they” is primarily your mother in law, and events may occur where she is no longer the driver for the requests.
Requesting to visit and needing people to watch your kids at a specific time are two different things.
You know your inlaws, I don’t. I know that the difference between when mine were the only grandchildren and when mine were the oldest and my sisters both started requiring a lot of my mother’s time and attention meant I was suddenly more dependent on sitting favors with my mother in law and my own father - both of whom are more “watch the kids on my own terms” than my mother.
I guess what I’m saying is I’d let it go. I don’t think there is anyway to bring this up that doesn’t make your father in law feel like a lousy human being who feels his daughter in law doesn’t trust him with his own grandchild - and that may be a feeling that you regret instilling in him.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, my husband is an only child, so if they get anymore grandkids, it’ll have to be from us :D. But yes, they are great about helping us out if he’s sick and we both have something going on at work that we can’t get out of - especially in the summer when my MIL is out of school. I really do think this was just an isolated incident.
My head exploded 10 posts ago .
You guys are funny .
DCTrekkie, I appreciate that. And I know I’ve come across as defensive in some of this thread, so that probably hasn’t helped, either. You made good points, I think we just disagree on the method of discipline.
[QUOTE=One And Only Wanderers]
I agree you can have whatever rules you like in your house. However if one of the kids breaks a rule, the disciplining of the child should be according to the parents wishes IMO. If this ever became a problem with my parents (I really don’t think it will), then my solution would be to tell them they were welcome to visit their granddaughter at MY house where according to such a credo, my rules stand.
[/QUOTE]
So that means your kids would never go visit their grandparents without you?
I totally agree with respecting the parents guidelines , with reasonable limitations, and judging the situation at hand.
It’s just a touchy emotional subject and things won’t be perfect. We have to create boundaries, communicate clearly, and make a judgment call about what is a priority.
The occasional infraction isn’t worth ruining a relationship over.
I’m in the “let it go” camp. You’re getting worked up about nothing. I don’t think your FiL did anything inappropriate or harmful, and you would just sound shrill and oversensitive if you try to confront him about it. The kid is going to be just fine.
[QUOTE=Chimera]
If you won’t discipline your kids in our house, We Will.
[/QUOTE]
There ya go.
I remember my Mom getting in some spats with in laws or even my siblings when she would scold grandkids for misbehaving. It feels bad to have your kids disciplined by someone else, but it’s going to happen. When my kids had guests it was my house my rules.
Not related to the OP but I work retail in a music store. It still surprises me how many parents don’t really teach their kids to respect other people’s property, and then get pissed if you ask their kids not to play with the gear.
remember , it takes a village to raise a child and kids have to learn that their are different rules for different places and people. It’s a fact of life.
[QUOTE=MsWhatsit]
Hey, Elza, I just wanted to chime in as someone else who doesn’t think that you necessarily have to go swatting/hitting/slapping/spanking/whatever your kids. We’ve got three kids (well, two; Whatsit the Youngest is still just a baby) that are perfectly aware that the stove is hot and shouldn’t be touched, and that the road is dangerous and not for running out into, and we’ve never had to smack them to get this across.
Also, I would be right pissed if someone caring for my children - even if they were MARVELOUS grandparents who deserve THANKS and APPRECIATION for taking on the onerous burden of watching my child - decided to smack them. Whether it was for punitive reasons or not. Because, in my household, we do not hit, and if Grandpa decides that in his household it is okay to hit, then I will be having a polite discussion with Grandpa about this. If said discussion does not achieve the desired effects (i.e., no more hitting, ever) then visits to Grandpa’s house will mysteriously dry up.
You can call me mean, bitter, deluded, ungrateful, or whatever you want. I don’t hit my kids and neither does anybody else.
[/QUOTE]
A little slap on the hand isn’t “hitting.”
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
A little slap on the hand isn’t “hitting.”
[/QUOTE]
Not having been there, I don’t know if it was a little slap on the hand or a hard smack. If it were my kid, and I felt like it crossed a line, I’d say something, and if Gramps thought I came across as shrill, that’s his problem. Although, what I’d probably say is something along the lines of, “Hey, we’d prefer if you didn’t swat Junior on the hand, because we feel like it sends a mixed message and we’re trying to get him not to hit the other kids at day care” or something along those lines. Which hopefully would not come across as “shrill”.
[QUOTE=MsWhatsit]
Hey, Elza, I just wanted to chime in as someone else who doesn’t think that you necessarily have to go swatting/hitting/slapping/spanking/whatever your kids. We’ve got three kids (well, two; Whatsit the Youngest is still just a baby) that are perfectly aware that the stove is hot and shouldn’t be touched, and that the road is dangerous and not for running out into, and we’ve never had to smack them to get this across.
Also, I would be right pissed if someone caring for my children - even if they were MARVELOUS grandparents who deserve THANKS and APPRECIATION for taking on the onerous burden of watching my child - decided to smack them. Whether it was for punitive reasons or not. Because, in my household, we do not hit, and if Grandpa decides that in his household it is okay to hit, then I will be having a polite discussion with Grandpa about this. If said discussion does not achieve the desired effects (i.e., no more hitting, ever) then visits to Grandpa’s house will mysteriously dry up.
You can call me mean, bitter, deluded, ungrateful, or whatever you want. I don’t hit my kids and neither does anybody else.
[/QUOTE]
Bingo. Slapping a hand is dismissive and disrespectful and teaches nothing except that handslapping is ok. I can see grabbing his hand and saying a firm NO while making eye contact. Or better yet, since he’s 2, divert him to another activity.
(I’ll wait for all those who will now say I’m too soft or don’t curb my kids misbehaviors etc).
If Gramps can’t handle a bit of feedback on his parenting “style” maybe Gramps needs to grow up a bit. He can always shrug his shoulders and complain about these newfangled parenting ways behind the OP’s back–that’s what most grandparents do.