Huerta88 - your handle hurts you

The BBQ Pit
81

[QUOTE=RickJay]
Oh, come on, these hoary old urban myths? Are any numbers okay to use anymore?

Snopes is your friend:

Honestly, we can’t use 81 anymore, according to Loach. I suppose 38 is out too because 38 is twice 19 and S is the 19th letter of the alphabet and that makes SS, ooh, evil Nazis! We’ll also have to stop using 72, since H+I+T+L+E+R = 8+9+20+12+5+18 = 72, and 141,269 is no longer acceptable because that spells Nazi.
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Not urban myths (I never heard about the 311 thing). Within the last few years the Hell’s Angels tried to move into New Jersey. It used to be Pagan territory. They started up a new gang called the Red Devils 81. They were sort of a HA minor league. When they went out wearing their colors the two HA members allowed to wear the “New Jersey” scroll were with them. 81 figured prominantly on their colors and on the HA colors. HA does stand for Hells Angels because they want it to, not because I made it up.

If you didn’t know about the 88 thing then you haven’t been paying attention on the internet. It’s not something we are making up, it’s something neonazi’s made up for themselves. If I found out that 88 meant that and it was in my name I would change it. Especially if the reason I took the name was just because 87 was taken. But thats just me.

82

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
I’ve never seen that. Nor would I have much reaction even if I saw it and knew that the person was indeed trying to communicate that. The Hell’s Angels are controversial, but eh.

If someone had the username “Hell’s Angel” I would think nothing of it. If they had the username “Heil Hitler” I would consider that pretty ugly.
[/QUOTE]

If you think organized crime is controversal then sure, they are controversal. They make their money from crystal meth, guns and murder for hire. But that’s not what this thread is about.

83

A local department store had “Code 88” as it’s intercom call for “more cashiers” until customers complained. It is a real phenomenon.

I’ve not run across any of Huerta88 posts that I know of (I rarely look at usernames), but when I saw a thread I figured he was a new nazi guest being pitted.

I don’t think you should have to change your name, however.

Just my two cents, I guess.

84

I’m an older retired school teacher and not as well-read as I used to be, but I’ve been familiar with this use of “88” for a while. One doesn’t have to be a member of any particular subculture to be aware of its traditions, signs and practices.

So it is a caution flag. My opinion of him comes from the words he posts, the sources he chooses, the point of view he enoys supporting, the twist of his words, all sorts of devices. He is a very clever man.

I have no idea why he would continue to select a username that he knows suggest something vile to so many thinking people. But, of course, what else is there when “87” is not available?

85

[QUOTE=John Mace]
I wouldn’t be so sure about that. There have been posters on this board with “88” as part of their usernames who without a doubt were NeoNazis. Typically, they end up banned. I’ve often wondered mysefl why **Huerta **would use that in his name, given the connotation.
[/QUOTE]
Didn’t you raise that exact point with Huerta shortly after he arrived? IIRC, it was not long after we had an influx of 88’ers.

Personally, I had my doubts early on too, when he had no history. But since then I have let his posts speak for him and not his name. I think he should keep his name and let it erode the negative meaning.

86

Sorry, John Mace. I mis-remembered; it was DtC here

87

Oh FFS, can we please get a comprehensive list of all the numbers that no one is to use out of risk of offending someone or forming some sort of unwitting gang/criminal/genocidal affiliation that “everyone should know”? Because I sure would hate to see Huerta88 change his name to something like “Una’s Cabana Boy 3602” and then find out that Hitler’s wine steward was born on March 6, 1902…OR June 3, 1902, after all them thar Yurp-eans use them funny datey numbers and all.

This thread reminds me of the nervous titters I see office busybodies go into when they say “oh my GAWD I was behind a car with 666 in its license plate!!! How can they let someone drive that down the road when it COULD OFFEND CHRISTIANS?!” :rolleyes:

88

I remember being suspicious about it at first because we’d had a couple of Stormfronters with “88’s” in their user names. After Huert88 expressed a lack of knowledge about the number’s coded significance among the white power morons, I let it drop. I don’t know that I was 100% convinced that he really didn’t know but I didn’t press it.

89

[QUOTE=Una Persson]
Oh FFS, can we please get a comprehensive list of all the numbers that no one is to use out of risk of offending someone or forming some sort of unwitting gang/criminal/genocidal affiliation that “everyone should know”?
[/QUOTE]

Who said everyone should know it? Some of us are aware of it. Some weren’t until this thread. Some undoubtedly don’t believe it exists. But I don’t see anyone claiming that you should know it, follow it, learn it, live it, love it.

I don’t think anyone would deny that certain words or symbols can be taken over by racist scum. The swastika is an excellent example of that. Now, the 88ers only wish they had that power, and only wish they caused that much fear and consternation, but that doesn’t mean their symbols are meaningless.

So, I guess the question is, then, do you disbelieve that 88 ever has an unsavory meaning? Because I don’t see anyone claiming it has to.

90

88 has to be one the top 100 numbers.

91

[QUOTE=RickJay]
Oh, come on, these hoary old urban myths? Are any numbers okay to use anymore?

Snopes is your friend:

[/QUOTE]
You do know that’s about the name of a band, not the number itself, right?

92

[QUOTE=Dooku]
I’ve never heard this before. '88 is when I graduated high school - maybe Huerta is my age.
[/QUOTE]

You obviously mean the year formerly known as '88. Now '87+1 or '89-1 in the southern hemisphere.

93

I freely admit that I didn’t know about any reputed tenuous made-up connection, and I’ll wager I’ve “been paying attention on the internet” a lot more and a lot longer than the average person. Maybe I don’t hang around skinhead boards where people try to make crazy links between numbers and ideals. In fact, I just asked 2 minutes ago about half a dozen friends of mine who have been on the Net since pre-web, including at least two Jewish persons, and NO ONE had ever come across it. The answers ranged from “the Crazy 88’s” from “Kill Bill” to the Oldsmobile Delta 88.

Oh come on, with respect that’s not a fair question at all. ANYONE can give ANY number an unsavory meaning and your point is made. It doesn’t mean that someone should feel a compunction to change their Member title because some fringe may or may not have given it an unsavory meaning. What about letters? If I say that the use of the word “goddess” in you name offends Christians (because it’s obviously a non-Christian thing to even reference in passing a “goddess”, right?) then are you going to change your name? (obviously, not)

Hang out at crazy Konspiracy Theory sites, and you can find every single number disected by lemur-eyed basement dwelling numerologists to mean something sinister. Should we start eyeing anyone with a number in their name to look for hidden meanings - and here’s the point - even when their posting history gives no evidence of choosing the number for any meaning?

That is the question.

94

[QUOTE=Una Persson]
Oh come on, with respect that’s not a fair question at all. ANYONE can give ANY number an unsavory meaning and your point is made. It doesn’t mean that someone should feel a compunction to change their Member title because some fringe may or may not have given it an unsavory meaning.
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I don’t think he should change it if he doesn’t want to. He’s obviously aware of one set of connotations and doesn’t consider it important enough to worry about. I’ve got no problem with that. I would change it if I became aware that more than just a lunatic fringe had encountered the usage, unless some would label everyone in here who has seen it the lunatic fringe.

And that’s really the objection, right? That this is so minor and non-mainstream that only the lunatic fringe would even notice? The sense I get from those who have never encountered it is that if they haven’t encountered it it can’t be that important.

Or is it that you don’t believe that 88 is actually in use at all? I think here’s quite a good example: The website of America’s Nazi Party http://www.nsm88.com/

I can’t get a handle on the objections to the potential connotation being pointed out. I haven’t seen anyone say that using an 88 makes you a Nazi. I have seen people say that using 88 makes their alerts go ping. We didn’t create the association; we’ve just seen it before.

95

You know, I think I’m going to write a book entitled Der Fuhrer Code, option the movie rights, then go and sit on a tropical island somewhere a cocktail that’s served in a coconut with a small rainforest and an umbrella on top, and wait for the cheques to start rolling in…

Like Una, I’ve been trawling around the 'net for many years, and this thread is the first mention I’ve ever heard of “88” being some sort of secret Internet Nazi version of the “fish-with-Jesus-in-it” thing that some Christians put on their cars.

I’ve a keen interest in military history, and I’ve posted on many boards related to Military history, which invariably includes discussions on the Nazis- and the “88” thing has NEVER come up.

Does that mean it doesn’t exist? Of course not. But it does mean, I’d say, that you’ve got to be hanging around some interesting places for the number 88 to immediately mean “Heil Hitler” to you.

As for our pittee, Huerta: The first thing I thought when I saw his name was that there were 87 other people with the username Huerta.

Maybe it’s one of those US internet things that really hasn’t caught on internationally? (fortunately…)

Again, a quick ask of some military history friends of mine about the significance of “88” and the Nazis got replies about the 88mm Flak Cannon, and some of the Secret Weapon projects, but everyone admitted that Hitler had a hard-on for all that numerology and so on, so it didn’t surprise them that “certain groups” might have started using the numbers.

But yeah, on it’s own, Huerta88 no more suggests a Nazi affiliation to me than “Cadbury Dairy Milk” or “Donald Duck”.

I guess I should consider myself lucky…

96

[QUOTE=Una Persson]
I freely admit that I didn’t know about any reputed tenuous made-up connection, and I’ll wager I’ve “been paying attention on the internet” a lot more and a lot longer than the average person. Maybe I don’t hang around skinhead boards where people try to make crazy links between numbers and ideals. In fact, I just asked 2 minutes ago about half a dozen friends of mine who have been on the Net since pre-web, including at least two Jewish persons, and NO ONE had ever come across it. The answers ranged from “the Crazy 88’s” from “Kill Bill” to the Oldsmobile Delta 88.

Oh come on, with respect that’s not a fair question at all. ANYONE can give ANY number an unsavory meaning and your point is made. It doesn’t mean that someone should feel a compunction to change their Member title because some fringe may or may not have given it an unsavory meaning. What about letters? If I say that the use of the word “goddess” in you name offends Christians (because it’s obviously a non-Christian thing to even reference in passing a “goddess”, right?) then are you going to change your name? (obviously, not)

Hang out at crazy Konspiracy Theory sites, and you can find every single number disected by lemur-eyed basement dwelling numerologists to mean something sinister. Should we start eyeing anyone with a number in their name to look for hidden meanings - and here’s the point - even when their posting history gives no evidence of choosing the number for any meaning?

That is the question.
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Give me a fucking break. It was not some crazy Konspiracy theory site. It was here that I ran into it in person. You can dismiss this by saying there is a hidden meaning. It’s not fucking hidden and it’s not a theory! Neonazis have been using it for decades. No one is making it up, it is not a theory and it is not very obscure. The title of the OP says it all “your handle hurts you”. If Huerta88 never posts anything controversal then there is no reason to believe he is anything other than what he says he is. However there is going to be a significant number of people who are going to look at his posts a little different because of his name. If he can live with that that is up to him.

97

[QUOTE=Martini Enfield]
YMaybe it’s one of those US internet things that really hasn’t caught on internationally? (fortunately…)
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know. I just found some massive list of links to pro-Nazi websites and the 88 seems to pop up on both US and international sites: http://www.mathaba.net/www/nazi/index.shtml

Apparently Target had a bit of a stir a few years back when they started offering clothes with 88 on them. They ended up recalling them: http://www.dontshopattarget.com/nazi/nazi_article.html

I did the searches because I wondered if it was pretty much confined to usenet, and it doesn’t appear it is. However, the patchy nature of the information, where one group has seen it for years and another group has never heard of it, makes communication more difficult. Personally, I wish I were in the latter category.

98

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
I don’t know. I just found some massive list of links to pro-Nazi websites and the 88 seems to pop up on both US and international sites: http://www.mathaba.net/www/nazi/index.shtml
[/QUOTE]

Actually, I just clicked on (I think) all of the 88 sites and none of them exist. So, I think this list is either bogus or outdated.

99

Una Persson, I think you misunderstand. It’s not that I find “88” used at the end of a name “offensive.” It’s just that I know that that is sometimes used by neo-nazis in their usernames. Why must I pretend that I don’t know that?

And, of course, I am offended by bigotry, racism, misogyny. If the person with “88” attached to his name says nothing along those lines, I have no problem.

Have we ever had any women use “88”? Just curious.

100

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
And that’s really the objection, right? That this is so minor and non-mainstream that only the lunatic fringe would even notice? The sense I get from those who have never encountered it is that if they haven’t encountered it it can’t be that important.
[/QUOTE]

That’s part of it. Just because one can find links and get people to post they’ve heard of it doesn’t mean it’s in popular use and not obscure. Another part of it is that even if you know what it reputedly means to some, the connection is so tenuous it’s a joke. “88” because H is the 8th letter of the alphabet, and thus HH means “Heil Hitler”? Even if someone or some group of fucked up wannabe neo Nazis has chosen it as a number with “meaning”, there’s too many links in the chain for it to be taken seriously. It reads straight out of a glurge e-mail telling me as well to make sure all the knives are point-down in my dishwasher and that terrorists are poisoning Halloween candy. I’ll bet I could post a dozen numbers with more meaning to neo Nazis just knowing some history.

But I didn’t say that, or imply it. I said that anyone (meaning, any number of people) could make any crazy connection they wanted to with any number. Seriously, what do you do when you see someone on the road driving an Olds Delta 88? Do you immediately think “possible Nazi”? If you do (and I doubt you do), then that’s truly scary. If not, then why not? Is Quentin Tarentino saying something when he chose the “Crazy 88’s”? Why or why not?

I object to the “association” that makes people’s “alerts go ping” in the absence of any other evidence. If some dumbass named “Joey88” comes on and starts talking about how “Jews took his job” then maybe you have something there, sure. Thus far I’ve seen nothing to show that Huerta88 has any cause to be treated in that same way.

Judging members by part of user name which contains a number which has a tenuous and obscure link to neo Nazis because the number is the order in the alphabet of the first letters of two words which might mean “Heil Hitler” (or might also mean “Hungry Hippos”) - in the absence of other evidence? Come on, just say it out loud - doesn’t that sound crazy to you? Shouldn’t someone look for other evidence before noticing a connection that makes their Spidey Sense tingle?

Look, I don’t want to get into this with you simply because I think you and I have positions that are closer than perhaps you might think they are.

[QUOTE=Loach]
Give me a fucking break. It was not some crazy Konspiracy theory site. It was here that I ran into it in person. You can dismiss this by saying there is a hidden meaning. It’s not fucking hidden and it’s not a theory! Neonazis have been using it for decades. No one is making it up, it is not a theory and it is not very obscure. The title of the OP says it all “your handle hurts you”. If Huerta88 never posts anything controversal then there is no reason to believe he is anything other than what he says he is. However there is going to be a significant number of people who are going to look at his posts a little different because of his name. If he can live with that that is up to him.
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  1. I didn’t say it was only found on crazy cites. And it’s fairly obvious it’s found on here; others do read these threads.

  2. It is obscure to me and several others who have posted here. Even if it’s known it’s not the sort of thing you hear people say every day. It’s not an immediate sinister number that jumps to mind.

  3. A significant number? As in hundreds? Thousands? On this Board? Cite, or at least thought process involved?

  4. “If he can live with that”? Do you realize how odd that turn of phrase sounds? I just hope Huerta88 isn’t on the suicide prevention hotline right now because of his user name…but hey, Hitler committed suicide, so I guess if Huerta88 kills himself over this, it must mean he’s a Nazi, right? Oh, does he have to weigh more or less than a duck to be a Nazi; I can never get it straight.

  5. Post your list. You listed “88” and “81” as numbers with hidden/sinister meanings. What’s the complete list? Tell us all, in the interest of Fighting Ignorance, which numbers are going to make a significant number of people look at a poster’s name funny, and why.