I dunno about sinister numbers, Una, but you DO have that double “S” in your name…
:rolleyes: Yeah, as if English-speaking neoNazis regularly take Spanish-sounding names. Honestly, I was trying to think what was offensive about ‘huerta’–& I just kept visualizing a horta. The number 88 being offensive didn’t even occur to me. It could mean he was born in 1988 (which would make him 18; we’re going to see a lot of those this year); or he plays the piano, or any number of other random things.
I hereby reclaim “88” for nonNazis.
But you see, my sequence of events is a little different than I guess what some people’s is. Within reason, I look to see if the person has espoused a viewpoint or worldview first, then would notice their name. Now if “HitlerwasRight” signs up obviously that’s going to be a red flag that even I get, but an obscure number like “88”? I saw a similar “controversy” on an old site I used to be on where a user’s name was “Phil1939”, and he was accused of being pro-Nazi because 1939 was the year of the invasion of Poland, AND he posted in a thread decrying illegal immigration. Turns out it was just his unfortunate choice of birth year, and he didn’t like open borders. By the time it was explained, nobody cared, and over time newbies kept popping in with the “so, are you a fan of beer and leiderhosen” references until the guy left.
Maybe one number isn’t so bad. But how many other magic offensive numbers are there? We now hear about 81 meaning something to do with the Hell’s Angels because of a gang in one State. We all know about 420 and 311 and 5150 and 262 and 90210 and 25 or 624, but how many others are there? Doesn’t the presence of so many magic numbers just feel like it doesn’t belong on this message board? Or, alternately, am I wrong, and discovering these code numbers in Society and what they stand for in certain circumstances is in fact something that this place stands for? Both outcomes could happen, but I favour the first one.
Now that made me smile. 
Una, she-wolf of the SS
You’re not the only one…
I really don’t think you could unless it’s 14. The two numbers that crop up over and over again with neo-Nazis are 14 and 88. The National Socialist Movement has a 14/88 scholarship fund. The “14 words”, the “88 precepts.” Oh, I guess 18 pops up a bit, too, standing for AH.
http://www.resist.com/Articles/literature/88PreceptsByDavidLane.htm
I’m not saying it isn’t a lameass code, but these are lameass people, so of course they use a lameass code. Why would idiots like this have a more sophisticated symbology? Seriously, we’re talking about some of the stupidest people on the planet, people who are probably lucky to be able to count to 8. I’m actually a little surprised they came up with something this clever.
But if you think that there are a dozen numbers in wider symbolic use with the neo-nazis, I’d be interested to see what you come up with. I honestly do not believe you will find that to be the case, but I’m hardly either an internet or neo-nazism expert.
I seriously doubt that simply having “88” in one’s name would hurt a poster’s credibility unless they made controversial comments consistent with that ideology. Usernames tend not to get attention until people start noticing coincidences and patterns.
So I don’t know why Bricker is advising anyone to change their name. Is he worried that the content of Huerta’s posts insufficiently speak to the man’s supposedly unracist character and that there could be some misunderstandings when these posts are paired up with his name? If that’s the case, maybe attention shouldn’t be directed towards “fixing” his name, but rather towards the posts themselves.
Perhaps Bricker is suggesting in his typical roundabout fashion that Huerta’s ideas would be more easily accepted by the teeming masses if he only had a name that didn’t have such sketchy connotations. Somehow I doubt that. As choie wisely pointed out on page 2, the guy’s name is the least of his problems. A duck by any other name will still quack like a duck.
I stand educated as to 14…
No, I mean I could come up with more meaningful numbers. Like year dates, for instance. Or 130 (Jan. 30, the date Hitler took power), or 262 (the cool jet fighter and symbol of Nazi technological prowess), or 215 (refers to Mein Kampf vol 2, chap 15, where the subject of gassing Jews in the future is strongly alluded to)…and I didn’t have to go any further than Wikipedia to find these. I’d say, IMHO, these are much more direct links than the 88.
But this will come down to opinion, not fact, so I don’t think with respect to relevance of numbers we can honestly debate. I contend that there are much more relevant numbers that real Nazis would choose. I freely admit you and other intelligent persons may find more relevance in 88 than I.
Yes I get it. You never heard of it so it must be obscure. We are being ridiculous because our experiences are different than yours. You are not the only one who has been on the web for more than a week. Until Huerta88 every person I have run into with 88 in their name has had it there for the reason mentioned. That includes on the dope. It is not obscure. It is not something three guys in a basement came up with. It is used by the entire Nazi movement worldwide. If you haven’t been paying attention they are very active on the web. Bricker was just pointing out that Huerta’s name carries some heavy baggage. Everyone coming in on the other side basically is saying “well I never heard of it so it can’t be a big deal”. Well a lot of people have heard of it, it’s not obscure or new. I know it’s just a number but its been given meaning, especially on the internet. You can choose to ignore it but that won’t make it go away.
Well, that might be the thing right there. Are these people real Nazis or stunted children playing at grown-up games? I’d like to think the latter, though even children can burn down a house if they play too often with matches.
Thanks for the discussion.
The Arado 234 “Blitz” was also in service at the same time as the Me 262, and I’d argue a better technological accomplishment for the Germans.
Of course, the RAF managed to field the Gloster Meteor at almost exactly the same time as the Me 262, but you’d have to be an aviation enthusiast to know the Meteor even existed, for the most part…
Loach:
I disagree with several things you say, but I cannot make my point clearer and am probably unlikely to convince you of my position. In the interest of trying to keep an open mind I’ll try to reconsider what you’ve written, but at this time I see only some common ground.
Not everyone, Loach.
Do you think that huerta88 is a neo-Nazi?
If so, why? If not, why not?
IMO you probably are right as to the reality and seriousness of the people in question.
And thank you, for the discussion, as well.
FTR, I assume you’ve seen these, but just in case.
ME 262 flies again!: http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=f6d0d060-4b31-40ab-9d63-c1d2e0983e66
Video of the flight: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9204328304330343657
No. I just saw the Snopes link to 311 for the first time. 90210 I know, but surely you can’t be comparing the zip code and name of a TV show to a neo-nazi buzz word and referring to them both as “magic numbers.” The rest of them I don’t know at all. But I sure as hell know what “88” stands for, especially when it is attached to the end of a name. There is nothing “magic” about it.
You can tell us from now 'till yonder what our responses should or shouldn’t be and how ridiculous it is, but it’s not going to change the gut reaction of those who have known about it’s significance.
That doesn’t mean that Huerta88’s posts can’t be judged on their merit after the initial reaction.
Don’t get me started on USAMA…
Just because a lot of people have heard of something doesn’t mean it can’t also be obscure at the same time- especially for the equally large, or even larger number- of people who’ve never heard of the something in question.
Actually, I’d argue this a prime example of why you can make something go away by ignoring it.
Without any evidence to the contrary, I refuse to assume everything with the number 88 in it is somehow related to the Nazis- and since the pittee in question hasn’t posted anything to support the view he might have framed/autographed photos of Adolf Hitler on his wall, I think a lot of people are getting bent out of shape over a relatively obscure internet phenomenon that you’d either have to actively look for- or have a more than academic interest in Neo-Nazis- to be aware of, IMHO.
No, you’re right, that would be dishonest. I was trying to use creative hyperbole to make a point that some things just seem very, well, ridiculous on the face of them - by including an obviously ridiculous number.
Well, that is true. Possibly only time and self-examination or a preponderence of evidence contrary to the reaction, coupled with a driver to change, can do that.
Every now and then a thread appears on the SDMB where I am left scratching my head saying “Wha…?” This is one of them.
Personally I don’t get too excited about usernames, and to be honest I don’t think I can remember seeing Huerta88 around very much. I think if (he?) spouts off some neo-Nazi bullshit there is justification in wondering if he’s down with the Heilers or whomever. If he appears to conduct himself with normal comportment, simply being on the right doesn’t justify this guilt by proximity thing going on.
I’ve been on the net since the early 90s - back when Yahoo! was a Stanford website - and I’ve never heard this 88 business before. In fact, my sister graduated high school in 1988 - there’s a class of Black and Brown kids who used to scrawl “88 rules” into everything. These folks, I am certain, are not Nazis. But I don’t frequent nazi boards or those populated by them, I guess.
I imagine all of us have words or letters in our usernames that symbolize a number of things that we don’t actually intend it to. For instance, I am not a hippy and I am certainly not hollow. I’m named after a (nekkid) swimming hole in my hometown. I’m not gonna change my name because someone makes a connection I didn’t intend. And ultimately, I think we have to take Huerta88 at his word. I would also imagine if you intend 88 to be a signal of your neo-Nazism, you wouldn’t deny it…
Oh shit. Just realized that my initials… never mind. I’m not a nazi!!!