Huey Freeman is banned

[Drunky_Smurf]

@octopus

Hmmm. If we quoted those rules and went back through some Pit posts it would be interesting to see how to the letter those rules were followed by people who’ve been here for decades.

I agree with octopus.

Mods, since no one who has been here for more than 2 days has ever followed the rules of The Pit, billions of bannings need to be done.

Especially the potty mouths. They need to be Double-Banned.

Post-haste post-hoc doubly-so spinach-chimichanga!

[Little_Nemo]

Personally, I think Huey’s banning was both justified and overdue. (I’m sure this surprises nobody who has read my comments in the relevant threads.)

I don’t feel it was necessary to go to such lengths to find a reason to ban him. He clearly violated the rule against being a jerk.

Now I understand that there’s some tolerance of jerkish behavior in the Pit forum. But I think it’s important to distinguish between a person who engages in some jerkish behavior and a person whose entire nature is being a jerk.

The Pit serves a valid purpose by allowing people to occasionally step into it and engage in discussions which are more heated than those in the other forums. But people should then step back out and interact in a more normal fashion. Nobody should be spending all their time in the Pit. Anyone who does so has a problem - and is a problem.

People should be able to post invective on this board. But there’s no need for people who don’t post anything except invective.

[coffeecat]

@Roderick_Femm

I have experience maybe a couple of times in my life mindless hatred from a couple of individuals because I’m gay. I have tried to imagine what it would be like if that were happening to me all day every day, if I had to be in fear of my life or my job or my liberty for no reason and for something I couldn’t hide (like I can mostly hide my sexual orientation). I didn’t get very far with that imagining, really, but it helped me towards a small degree of understanding that anger which stood out as Huey Freeman’s strongest feature.

I can imagine. I would try scrupulously to be the best I could be, not by their standards, but by my own, because that way I’d prove who was truly superior. I’d treat every star-bellied Sneech like an individual and be perfectly fair, because I’d rather eat razor blades than be a bigot, an instrument of injustice, one of them.

Yes, I’m sure. I don’t know how so many Dopers can be so certain about abortion or the death penalty or so many other matters of opinion, but I’m certain enough of this to stake my life on it.

[Heffalump_and_Roo]

@Miller

Three months and change of posting nothing on the board but invective-filled screeds against other posters seems about as clear a violation of that rule as you could ask for.

I disagree with this characterization.
**
Huey Freeman** had 268 total posts. Of those, only 143 of them were in the Pit. 125 of his posts were not in the Pit, so they couldn’t have been filled with insults.

He posted his last post outside the Pit on 11/24/18. He explains in this post on 12/16/18 why he no longer posts in the rest of the forum.

spoilered for brevity

@Huey_Freeman

I tried that. But yes, you are correct. I am not here to debate or discuss. I read, I (sometimes) say my piece/reply, I read some more, and I move on.

But yeah, when I joined, I tried the whole debate thing. The moderator referred to my post as “anti-white” while actively participating in said thread, then followed that up with a warning for insults. Though, curiously, another poster said something similar prior and was not given a warning. The lack of consistency was enough for me to read between the lines and get the fuck out. You see, there is no entitlement here - when a white man tells you to get off his lawn, I get the fuck off his lawn. Immediately. I am not going to debate, plead, or beg to be around where I’m not wanted. Hell, If I ever got a warning in the BBQ pit, I’d stop posting here too. I’m not here to debate with you (or anyone else). That ship has sailed. If that bothers you (or anyone else), I encourage you to ignore my posts as others have done.

Of the remaining 143, 27 were in a Pit thread with his name on it. Another 58 were in the Living while Black thread. One would think it’s fine to have an invective-filled screed against posters who are Pitting you. He seems qualified to post in the Living while Black thread. I found some of his posts in that thread interesting.

That leaves 58 remaining posts. Of those posts, here’s a sample of the ones I didn’t find particularly insulting for the Pit. That leaves 54 posts where he might have been insulting others with invective-filled screeds, but I doubt it. Even if all 54 posts were invective-filled screeds, that’s not very many in the Pit, which is supposed to be about invective-filled screeds.

spoilered because of length.

@Huey_Freeman

I think white folks came up with this crime called “menacing”. I don’t know much about it, but it fits the bill, after all, this law was written by white folks, passed by folks, affirmed by a white president/governor, and adjudicated by a white judges. So, it must be a legit law, right? Phillips said he was fearful. We should believe him, just like we believe your white supremacist cops were “fearful” when they murder people of color. As for “thug”, where were you when Trayvon Martin and Tamir Ricewere referred to as thugs? These children had no criminal record. One of these children likely hadn’t even entered puberty yet. Meanwhile, the white animals refer toCharles Mansonas “loving” and “compassionate”. What a fucking joke.

@Huey_Freeman

I disagree. We should treat these students as our society would treat teenagers of color. In other words: as fully functioning adults from the age of infancy. Whether it be Tamir Rice (e.g. “It was the child’s fault for deliberately using his paycheck to buy a toy gun* without* an orange tip”) or Trayvon Martin (“He’s not a child, he’s an adult! He knew better!”), teenagers and children of color are expected to have the faculties of fully functioning adults. IMO, these non-compassionate, non-empathetic animals should be afforded the same benefit of doubt as people of color. Period. These teenagers* know that the MAGA hat is a symbol of hate and division*; they are wearing it as a means to “troll the libs”, to invoke hate, to affirm white supremacy, and, more importantly,* to hide their racism under the veneer of political affiliation*. This is all done to create the illusion of plausible deniability. Think about Obama. Who do you know wore an Obama hat when it wasn’t 2008 or 2012? Like no one. You are, however, spot-on in your analysis of the school and encourage you to take a look at their website - not a single person of color. Not. A. Single. One. The fact their graduates have a history of racism and bigotry is all you need to make a judgment. This is the same kind of school that produces the Kavanaugh, Coulters, and Bannons of the world. Matthew 7:16 screams from the mountain tops.

I’ll end with a comment I made awhile ago.

Kuchiyose No Jutsu

@Huey_Freeman

Dude, you give the patchouli-smelling liberals too much credit. This’ll surprise you (and probably most white conservatives) but white liberals are not Machiavellian in their approach to politics. Not even a little bit. In fact, white liberals (especially their white leadership) are spineless traditionalists that prefer slow, incremental change. I’d love to see a cite of white liberal leadership (NanChuck or NanReid) stating that immigrants will “swell the ranks of the Democratic Party”. That logic collapses when you think significant portions of Hispanic/Latino immigrants (e.g. Cubanos) who vote Republican and identify as fiscal and/or social conservative.

But, I digress.

The inability for the white liberal to abandon the white conservative coupled with his or her belief that the conservatives can be “saved” (i.e. tricked, convinced, or cajoled into being more tolerant), makes the white liberal useless. The white liberal insists on clinging onto the fantasy that white conservatives can be “saved”. This sets up an interesting paradigm where white liberals care more about what white conservatives think about a policy than people of color think about a policy. This contributes to the cycle of dissatisfaction and frustration that people of color feel for white liberal leadership.

Real talk. If cowardly white liberals wanted power, white liberals would have been obstructing every bill until Trump resigned or capitulated, Merrick Garland would’ve been strong-armed through, there would be plans for repeating votes for Puerto Rico, Guam, and DC Statehood, set up a secret law society that promulgates a narrow view of the Constitution and then appoint members of said society as SCOTUS judges, engage in gerrymandering (thank God for Maryland for showing these thots how to fight fire with fire).

@Huey_Freeman

I endorse this. You cannot change hearts and minds on social media. It’s a waste of time. For example, just this morning, I thought long and hard about responding to this post with cites and all but after about 10-second reflection, I decided against it. Why waste time? What would be the fucking point? It is my belief that people post on social media sites (like SDMB) not to debate* ideas but as a place to seek gratification and to get validation* of their ideas. This need for extrinsic validation has the tendency to turn what would be “great debates” into psychotherapy sessions or a priest’s confessional. I think it all comes from a place of loneliness and/or helplessness. The former type of loneliness where one would rather engage with strangers than the people they don’t know. It’s sad.

I’m not a Huey Freeman fan. I don’t really care about him. But when these rules start to look like made-up rationalizations or justifications for banning someone, I believe the whole forum loses.

I also don’t like the idea that people who only post in the Pit are somehow suspect. Way back when I started on this board, there was a time when I only hung out in the Pit. I didn’t have time to check out every forum, and I liked how diverse the Pit can be sometimes.

@Bone

Imagine if every time a poster shared some story of a personal nature, or some tragedy they experienced, Huey was there to take that element of sharing and use it to incessantly attack that poster in the Pit? Would that be okay? If someone has a kid who dies of cancer and shares that story, is it okay for Huey to use that kid’s cancer death to attack a poster (hypothetical) would that be okay? That they were better off dead because they wouldn’t have to deal with a poster? If not, then there is a line somewhere even in the Pit that is jerk and troll behavior. And if that was all they ever did?

That type of attack is destructive to community because it closes off any incentive to form community. Why bother participating when people like him will use any and all manner to attack you over it.

I would agree that if that’s all someone ever did, that would be jerkish. I don’t believe that’s all Huey Freeman ever did. I’ve seen other people in the Pit do it a lot more, especially when they follow people around to do it. AFAICT, Huey Freeman didn’t do that.

@Guinastasia

There should be a rule against attacking peoples’ families, and I think the mods seriously need to look into that. They dropped the ball there. But whether Huey was rightfully banned or not, he was not just some poor, innocent victim.

I’d be good with a rule against attacking posters’ family members, but then it needs to be modded uniformly and given notice. I’d also be good with a rule that posters can’t use personal information to mock other posters. But again, that would need a rule and be modded the same for everyone.

[Helena330]

Banquet Bear, I’ve stayed out of this whole mess, but I want you to know I’m reading your posts and trying to understand. Thank you for your important perspective.

[kambuckta]

@Little_Nemo

Personally, I think Huey’s banning was both justified and overdue. (I’m sure this surprises nobody who has read my comments in the relevant threads.)

I don’t feel it was necessary to go to such lengths to find a reason to ban him. He clearly violated the rule against being a jerk.

Now I understand that there’s some tolerance of jerkish behavior in the Pit forum. But I think it’s important to distinguish between a person who engages in some jerkish behavior and a person whose entire nature is being a jerk.

The Pit serves a valid purpose by allowing people to occasionally step into it and engage in discussions which are more heated than those in the other forums. But people should then step back out and interact in a more normal fashion. Nobody should be spending all their time in the Pit. Anyone who does so has a problem - and is a problem.

People should be able to post invective on this board. But there’s no need for people who don’t post anything except invective.

This. Nutshell. Thanks for saving me the effort Little Nemo

[Banquet_Bear]

@Miller

Well, like I said to octopus, the issue isn’t that he was too fighty in Pit threads, the issue is that he was only interested in fighting in the Pit. He didn’t participate in any other way for a while now. Back when he started the linked thread, last July, this behavior was not as apparent, and he was participating in other fora here outside of the Pit. My observation about his posting habits was dated from October, several months after he’d started that thread, and I think his comments in that thread during that time frame bear out my observation.

…you will notice that I participated in that thread, and I’m well aware of what went on in that thread. The thread went off the rails when he said something really fucking stupid and people attacked him for it. I ended up yelling a lot to get that thread on track and it worked for a bit.

But are you claiming that he was not sincere in his intentions in starting that thread? Because he was accused of that in that thread: but I started to quote every single time he posted in that particular thread where he posted or talked about a story about “life in America while being black.” And he did that a lot of fucking times.

And when he wasn’t talking about that, he was pushing back to the people that were attacking him. I think he was in the wrong. I’ve made that clear. But there is nothing wrong with pushing back: especially when he started that thread.

Over the last month he’s posted in three threads: the thread he started, the thread where he was the subject of the pitting and the Covington thread. Now everyone (including me) are being a bunch of idiots in the Covington thread. So Huey’s been posting in the Stupid Covington thread, he’s been posting in the thread he started and he’s been posting in the thread that’s pitting him.

What the fuck sort of posts were you expecting from him? I don’t get it. This isn’t extraordinary behavior. Its the fucking pit. We fucking yell at each other there. You should know that better than anyone.

Did it surprise you when you that in a thread titled “What the fuck is wrong with Huey Freeman” where people are saying stuff like “Huey Freeman is a black dumbass” and “If Huey caught bubonic plague it’d immediately become the best thing about him” that maybe Huey might have something to say in response? Its the fucking pit. What did you expect him to do?

Also, FTR, I found his “apology” to Guinastasia, as well as his explanation for his “misunderstanding,” to be completely unconvincing. That’s incidental to this discussion, as the decision to ban had already been made when he posted that, but a guy with Huey talent with rhetoric, who had never heard of the “have you stopped beating your wife” rhetorical trick? Please.

I don’t think Huey had a talent for rhetoric and I really don’t understand where you get that impression. He expressed himself poorly. I don’t think he understood some very basic concepts. He had little self-control. It was clear that people were saying stuff to him that he didn’t understand. Yet you have the impression he was some sort of master of rhetoric? Really? With those giant wall-of-text-posts that often didn’t make much sense? Conspiracy theories about autism? Are you reading the same posts that I’m reading?

No, I don’t think that it does. Certainly not in the eyes of anyone on the moderation staff, and I can’t recall ever seeing this idea put forward by any significant mass of posters.

So why was it problematic that he only posted in three pit threads over the last month?

All of those posters are able to participate in the board in ways that don’t exclusively involve picking fights with everyone they interact with.

Huey was involved in three threads this month. One of them was his pitting. The other was one that he started. One of them is the stupidest thread of the year (so far) where everyone is picking fights with everyone. You haven’t demonstrated a pattern. I’ve sometimes spent a month or two posting exclusively in the pit, sometimes in a single thread, having fights with everyone I interacted with.

Huey never picked a fight with me and I interacted plenty. He never picked a fight with plenty of people. You are mis-characterizing his behavior to justify your decision. You claim he was banned for trolling. But both you and Bone’s arguments here seem to indicate something different.

[Grrr]

@Little_Nemo

. Nobody should be spending all their time in the Pit. Anyone who does so has a problem - and is a problem.

Dude, why so harsh on Miller?

He can’t help the way that he is.

[Banquet_Bear]

@Helena330

Banquet Bear, I’ve stayed out of this whole mess, but I want you to know I’m reading your posts and trying to understand. Thank you for your important perspective.

…thank you

@Guinastasia

Well Banquet Bear, I do hope things get better for you – depression and anxiety fucking suck. I know it probably sounds trite, but I do mean it.

And thank you.

I’m bowing out now, not just from this thread but from the dope for a bit, just need to clear my head. Haere ra, ka kite ano.

[Miller]

Again, Banquet Bear, the problem is not that he was fighting in those threads. The problem is that the only reason he was a poster here was so he could fight people.

[kambuckta]

And Miller just wanted to say thanks to you for keeping the thread open, unlike most ‘XX Poster has been Banned’ threads that are immediately locked.

You did good allowing the yays and nays a voice dude.

[Elmore]

I’m glad Huey’s been banned. He was a shithead and a troll. Thanks to Miller for the explanation.

[kambuckta]

Better still is that Asahi was sent to TIME OUT with no supper. I’m not sure who I miss less?

[Banquet_Bear]

@Miller

Again, Banquet Bear, the problem is not that he was fighting in those threads. The problem is that** the only reason he was a poster here was so he could fight people.**

…[POPS BACK IN]except Heffalump and Roo has done the legwork to show that simply isn’t true. And I’ve gone and looked over his posts and I don’t see it either. You are asserting that “the only reason he was a poster here was so he could fight people.” But you haven’t demonstrated that your assertion is true.

I’m perfectly capable of reading his posts, and I’m perfectly able to put those posts in context. When you made the decision to ban Huey did you look at the context or only Huey’s individual posts? Do you not think the context is important?

If someone says to Huey “If Huey caught bubonic plague it’d immediately become the best thing about him” is he not allowed to push back? Have you investigated the pattern of the poster who said that to Huey? Because I have. Nearly every post in the pit. Almost every post an insult, only posting on topics that relate to race or to alt-right culture. His very last post was an accusation of trolling that he posted in ATMB. I reported that post: the report hasn’t (as yet) been actioned.

So is that pattern of behavior enough for a banning? And if not then why not?

iiandyiiii made a very important post in that thread.

@iiandyiiii

I find myself constitutionally incapable of standing alongside tacit supporters and tolerators of white supremacism (there are indeed a few in this thread, based on my reading of present and past posts) and shit on someone who appears to me to be an angry black man. I’m not sure about some of Huey’s posts, but I don’t believe I’m qualified to sit in any sort of judgment, even just on a message board, of an angry black man, in today’s America.

White supremacism is still, by far, the biggest enemy. It’s still, by far, the worst thing in America. And the biggest threat to Americans. Focusing on the flaws of a black man who may well be a highly flawed individual, but still quite likely (in this America!) has pretty damn good reason for being angry, IMO is providing a small but still real bit of rhetorical aid and comfort to white supremacism.

Which doesn’t mean no criticism, but IMO a lot in this thread is going well beyond the likely reasonable “hey, you’re being an idiot about autism”, and crossing into that realm of aiding white supremacism. Especially when you’re laughing at Huey right alongside supporters and/or tolerators of white supremacism.

He got a lot of push-back in that thread: but I think he was absolutely right. He wasn’t talking about the regular posters in that thread. I know exactly who he was calling out. Huey isn’t perfect. Nathan Phillips had a criminal record. Eric Garner illegally sold loose cigarettes. Trayvon Martin should have just gone home. Huey gets banned.

But the other guy?

The one who posts almost exclusively in the pit, who posted fifteen times in Huey’s pit thread, barely has a nice thing to say about anyone? That guy doesn’t even get a warning over a blatant accusation of trolling outside of the pit. I’ve seen his sort before. If you guys are serious about dealing with toxicity then you guys need to get better at spotting and dealing with the likes of him.

To paraphrase Childish Gambino: this really is America. If you guys don’t want to open yourself up to accusations of having double standards then you really have to do better than this.

:: edited to add ::

@Elmore

I’m glad Huey’s been banned. He was a shithead and a troll. Thanks to Miller for the explanation.

Well there’s a fucking surprise.

[Gyrate]

I’m just curious how asahi knows what race we all are.

I’m not even fully convinced Huey was black, tbh. Black or white, real or troll or just delusional - who knows? But he was definitely an asshole.

[Miller]

Just FYI, but linking to board search results doesn’t work. The link you gave goes to a blank “Your search did not return any results” page.

[Banquet_Bear]

@Miller

Just FYI, but linking to board search results doesn’t work. The link you gave goes to a blank “Your search did not return any results” page.

…I linked to the posts of the poster Elmore.

[Elmore]

@Banquet Bear

If someone says to Huey “If Huey caught bubonic plague it’d immediately become the best thing about him” is he not allowed to push back? Have you investigated the pattern of the poster who said that to Huey? Because I
have. Nearly every post in the pit. Almost every post an insult, only posting on topics that relate to race or to alt-right culture. His very last post was an accusation of trolling that he posted in ATMB. I reported that post: the report hasn’t (as yet) been actioned.

FYI - I wrote that ‘bubonic plague’ post in response to Huey calling madsircool’s S/O an ‘imported handbag’. He deserved it, and as insults go I think it was a pretty good one and I don’t feel in the least bit bad about it and never will.

As for why I post mostly in the Pit? Well, you yourself said you once spent three solid months doing nothing but post in the pit so I don’t know why you think it’s so bad when I do it.

[Banquet_Bear]

As for why I post mostly in the Pit? Well, you yourself said you once spent three solid months doing nothing but post in the pit so I don’t know why you think it’s so bad when I do it.

…I don’t think its bad at all. What gave you that impression? The moderators apparently do think its bad though. And its their opinion that matters.

[Elmore]

If it makes you feel better, I’m not really very keen on this MB so probably won’t be posting much more, if at all.